Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!looking!brad
From: b...@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton)
Newsgroups: comp.newprod,news.admin
Subject: Live News & Professional Electronic Publications in USENET Format
Summary: Electronic publishing of a newswire, computer news & more over a new
network using the USENET file format.
Message-ID: <3492@looking.on.ca>
Date: 9 Jun 89 03:42:30 GMT
Reply-To: clari...@looking.on.ca
Followup-To: news.admin
Organization: Looking Glass Software, Waterloo Ont.
Lines: 287
Approved: b...@looking.on.ca (With the permission of Ron Heiby)
Class: news, commercial
Announcing ClariNet -- Professional Electronic Publishing to the
multiuser computer network community.
Read a professional "Electronic Newspaper" and electronic magazines and
columns with your USENET newsreader -- real netnews, not netnoise.
ClariNet provides electronic publications in the Usenet file format.
ClariNet is *NOT* Usenet, but a parallel network that uses the same
file format. You'll get newsgroups with real, professional information
in them, at a low fee.
ClariNet will provide scores of professionally produced newsgroups
for about the same price as the analogous paper publications, but without
conventional advertising. Instead of dialing up to an online service
like CompuServe to read online news, you can get it delivered right to
your machine, to read and search at your own convenience, with no meter
running.
Initial products include a live newswire (including technology groups)
and various sources of computer industry, telecommunications and online
industry news. Each product is described in detail in its own posting.
ClariNews -- gathered live from UPI, Reuters and other
international news and business newswires. Fully keyworded
by professional editors and distributed in 40 newsgroups.
Included are groups for technology and computers, plus the
usual news, weather, sports, business news and features. (500K/day)
With a live feed, get your news on your own computer well
before your local newspaper.
(The same NEWSGRID that's on CompuServe & Genie.)
TechWire -- technical subset of ClariNews. Computers, electronics,
biotechnology, nuclear energy, aerospace, telecom etc.
NewsBytes -- A weekly computer industry newsmagazine. From
8 USA and international bureaus, news on the IBM, Apple, Unix,
Telecom, Business and Government arenas, plus reviews and coverage
of trends. (The same NewsBytes that's on the Source & GEnie.)
Networker's Journal -- A digest of news about networks other than
USENET, including what's new on CompuServe, Genie etc.
ClariNet Information -- free group for any site (even non-subscribers)
containing ClariNet announcements and information. This group
will also exist in the 'biz' distribution.
Experimental Products:
The following products are being presented on a trial basis.
Fight Back with David Horowitz -- a consumer information column,
3 times a week.
Hollywood Hotline -- daily brief news about the entertainment
industry, movie reviews 3 times per week, daily soap opera
summaries and entertainment trivia quizzes. (We're deleting
the Horoscopes that come with this service unless people
really want them.)
Infomat -- An alternate computer industry weekly that specializes
in coverage of the BBS world and shareware.
Please read the full descriptions of these groups in upcoming postings.
Subscribers to ClariNews and Newsbytes get a no-charge licence to use
the NewsClip programming language (described elsewhere) to filter their
news. This is particularly useful with the heavily keyworded ClariNews
items. It might also seriously change your USENET reading. NewsClip
lets you easily code USENET into exactly the network you want it to be.
Some feel that NewsClip alone is worth more than the price of a ClariNews
subscription.
How it works:
ClariNet picks up electronic publications from various sources
and turns them into USENET form. We then feed them immediately
to UUNET and other sites. ClariNet has created a new hierarchy
of newsgroups that start with "clari." For example, the
group with all newswire stories on the computer industry is
"clari.news.computers".
You pay to get a group, based on the number of readers on
your machine. Each product has a base price for one or two readers.
(The 2nd reader is always free.) The more readers you have, the
less you pay for each new reader. You can count readers using
something like "arbitron" or just take a standard percentage
of your user community. Rates vary based on the type of site.
With enough readers, you can end up paying less than 1/4th the
regular subscription price per reader.
readers 3-6 - 60% of base price
readers 7-20 - 35% of base price
readers 21 & up - 20 % of base price
If you make special arrangements with ClariNet, you can feed other
sites, as you may do on USENET. In fact, we'll pay *you* to feed
them by reducing your subscription fee for each site you feed.
Feed enough similarly-sized sites and you get ClariNet publications
for free. We're looking for feed sites in each major dialing
area.
Clarinet subscriber sites must follow ClariNet network rules or
they may be subject to cutoff or more if they break the rules.
(This only governs behaviour within ClariNet. The same sites
can also exist within USENET and do as they please there.)
Future Products:
We're working on more products. Some of these include:
- A Unix industry news service.
- A Science News service.
- An online science fiction news magazine.
- Syndicated columnists and features.
- Academic Journals
- ClariNet generated publications
- Member written publications -- tell us about yours.
We're also open to suggestion from you. What publications
would you like to see? Tell us.
How to Subscribe:
Mail us at order%clarinet....@uunet.uu.net (for orders) or
info%clarinet....@uunet.uu.net (for info). You can pay
with Visa, Mastercard or Amex, or we can invoice you. You
can phone 1-800-265-2782 to talk in person or to send confidential
information like credit card numbers.
Subscriptions are to be prepaid. (EFT payment is in the works.)
[ Outside the USA call 1-519-884-7473 ] FAX: 519-886-9495
[ The clarinet.com domain is still being registered. For now, only
uunet knows about it. Use the above form for the time being, or
mail to i...@looking.on.ca ]
Or Write:
ClariNet Commmunications Corp.
124 King St. N.
Waterloo, ON
N2J 2X8
Subscriptions are billed monthly, quarterly, semi-annually or
annually depending on the fee.
Or talk to me (Brad Templeton) at the Baltimore Unix conference.
I'll be at the USENET related BOFs and in the Holiday Inn.
Satisfaction Guaranteed -- Free Trial:
Sign up for a feed of any ClariNet product. If you're not
satisfied after a trial period (14 days of ClariNews, 2 weeks of
NewsBytes & other weekly pubs, 1 month of any monthly) send
back the invoice and you will be charged nothing. "Keep those
first issues as our gift." :-)
We'll also provide you with free sample back-issues at any time.
Special Introductory Offer:
Sign up in the first 2 weeks after this announcement (June 8-June 21)
and receive your first 2 weeks free. Some products are ready to
feed immediately, some are still in beta. Billing or the free period
won't start until a product is out the electronic door.
How to get a feed:
You can pick up all clari.groups by calling UUNET, the non-profit
USENET communications hub. If you are already a UUNET customer
we can instruct them to start feeding you right away. You can
also call ClariNet machines, or ClariNet customer sites that
are willing to feed. All ClariNet links must be approved by
ClariNet.
If you want to become a UUNET customer you can be signed up
quickly. UUNET provides communications at fairly low rates, and
offers Email and Usenet news feeds. They do have a $35/month
account fee, however. ClariNet is not associated with UUNET, we
simply buy their communications services.
(Yes, you can get a live feed over the internet! See below
if you thought that contradicts internet "policy.")
If there is no feed point suitable for you, we'll keep you on
file and inform you if one shows up.
If you're an individual, and you can't convince your site
admins to carry a ClariNet publication, it is possible that
a mail feed can be arranged. We can't feed all of ClariNews by
mail -- it's too big. Be sure you have the permission of the
sites that will forward the mail before requesting any high-volume
publication.
If you can't arrange subscription by your computer center, your
Library may have a standard system for subscriptions.
What does it cost?
The ClariNews base price is $10/month -- 33 cents/day -- less than
many daily advertising-filled newspapers. Subsets of the wire
can be had for less. NewsBytes is $49.95 per year -- less
than other computer industry news magazines. For other prices
consult the product fact sheet. Remember, the prices go down the
more readers you have. Readership is counted with an arbitron-like
program, or can be done on a 'site' basis, based on a preset
percentage of your newsreader community. (ie. You tell us how many
total users or readers on your site, and we might bill assuming 10%
of the readers read a given product -- the percentage varies by
product & machine type.)
What if I want to subscribe but my site doesn't?
We can arrange a feed of any low volume product by mail.
If your site is willing to create the clari groups and put
them in a private Unix 'group' for security, you can subscribe
in small numbers on a big site. We can bill individual customers
on a big site, but to get discounts, all discounted readers must
be on the same bill.
Do I really need more stuff to read?
No. But we do think you can use your time better when you read
professionally written information -- information worth paying for.
With NewsClip and the heavily keyworded ClariNews you can arrange
so that each article you see is important to you and worth reading.
Compare that to the time you spend on USENET -- it might actually
save you time.
Will you post more?
We believe that USENET should be used for commercial purposes,
but not abused. That's part of the reason why we're creating
ClariNet as a distinct network. Commercial traffic on USENET
is A-OK if it is desired by the recipients. So we'll post more
if it's clear to us that a lot of folks are interested. If
you indicate it's desired, we may provide some free samples in
appropriate places on USENET.
In the meantime, write to us for more information via e-mail or
regular postal mail.
Is this the end of USENET?
Hardly. This new network will exist in parallel with USENET
and both will thrive. We love the anarchy of USENET, but it
simply provides no avenue for the electronic publishing of
copyrighted information. That's why we've made ClariNet.
The Question of Internet & NNTP Feeding
Many potential customers will have access to the "Internet," a combination
of TCP/IP networks including those administered by the NSF, Nasa, DARPA and
other agencies. If you are on the internet, you might find it very
convenient to receive your information via this network. You can get
a feed from UUNET this way.
On the other hand, the issue of the transmission of commercial information
over certain large sections of the internet is uncertain. Contrary to
popular belief, there is currently no fixed policy on all networks other
than MILNET. Such a policy is under active consideration by network
authorities, and a proposal regarding ClariNet is before them. Forget
about what you heard about Internet rules. We talked to the folks at
the very top.
Until such time as a policy is decided, it is our belief that if you
are an authorized internet user, and *you* request that you receive
your subscription via internet, then this constitutes a legitimate use
of that network -- after all, it exists to give you easier access to the
information and facilities you desire.
Thus if you request that your subscription be transmitted via the internet,
this will be done. Should authorities for your section of the internet
decide that this is not acceptable at a later date, we may no longer be
able to honour your request. If you are unable to arrange any alternate
feed in these hypothetical circumstances, the unused portion of your
subscription will be refunded.
=====
ClariNet, ClariNews, TeleJoke, NewsClip, TechWire and the Clari prefix are
trademarks of Clarinet Communications Corp. Unix is a trademark of AT&T
Bell Labs. All other marks belong to their respective companies.
This article is not the complete subscription offer. The full terms of
subscription are available upon request.
--
Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!mica.berkeley.edu!wisner
From: wis...@mica.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Wisner)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Live News & Professional Electronic Publications in USENET Format
Summary: flame from a pinhead
Message-ID: <WISNER.89Jun11121944@anableps.berkeley.edu>
Date: 11 Jun 89 19:19:44 GMT
References: <3492@looking.on.ca> <4494@ficc.uu.net>
Sender: use...@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: Amnesia International
Lines: 19
In-reply-to: peter@ficc.uu.net's message of 11 Jun 89 14:49:54 GMT
ClariNet is a BUSINESS VENTURE. Its ONLY similarity to USENET is that it
uses the SAME SOFTWARE. Do we UNDERSTAND yet?
Peter da Silva goes on for a bit about how unenforcable Brad's policies are
and how Brad is setting himself up to play net.policeman.
If anything, Brad's setting himself up to play clarinet.policeman. Which
is fine. Because ClariNet is a BUSINESS VENTURE. Subscribers to ClariNet
will probably have to sign CONTRACTS. If the contract is WORDED well, it
will be ILLEGAL for subscribers to pass their FEED on to OTHERS. I have
no reason to BELIEVE that the contract will not be WORDED well. Do we
UNDERSTAND yet?
Put simply, a ClariNet subscriber that passes his ClariNet feed on is breaking
the law. Perhaps, Mr da Silva, your jaundiced world view won't permit you
to believe that there are people that would choose to abide by the law, and
the ClariNet contract, but we do exist.
w
Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!texsun!letni!lawnetg
From: g...@lawnet.LawNet.Com (Gregory G. Petersen)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Live News & Professional Electronic Publications in USENET Format
Message-ID: <307@lawnet.LawNet.Com>
Date: 12 Jun 89 16:51:33 GMT
References: <3492@looking.on.ca> <4494@ficc.uu.net> <WISNER.89Jun11121944@anableps.berkeley.edu>
Reply-To: greg@.LawNet.Com (Gregory G. Petersen)
Organization: LawNet Inc. California Offices.
Lines: 52
In article <WISNER.89Jun11121...@anableps.berkeley.edu> wis...@mica.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Wisner) writes:
>ClariNet is a BUSINESS VENTURE. Its ONLY similarity to USENET is that it
>uses the SAME SOFTWARE. Do we UNDERSTAND yet?
No -- WE don't understand yet. If this BUSINESS VENTURE going to use the usenet
paths for mail and to otherwise respond to the PURIFIED news that the BUSINESS
VENTURE is going to generate then KEEP IT THE HELL OF MY SYSTEMS since I don't
particularly want to pay for either the front end or the rear end of the
BUSINESS VENTURE.
>Peter da Silva goes on for a bit about how unenforcable Brad's policies are
>and how Brad is setting himself up to play net.policeman.
>If anything, Brad's setting himself up to play clarinet.policeman.
Great -- will he read the mail and make sure none of it goes via USENET?
Which is fine. Because ClariNet is a BUSINESS VENTURE. Subscribers to ClariNet
>will probably have to sign CONTRACTS.
That should be an interesting contract to read - internationally binding
and sufficent to be lawful in all jurisdictions that USENET touches.
Contracts are nice but as any lawyer will tell you they are only as good
as the parties thereto will allow.
If the contract is WORDED well, itwill be ILLEGAL for subscribers to pass their FEED on to OTHERS. I have
>no reason to BELIEVE that the contract will not be WORDED well. Do we
>UNDERSTAND yet?
That is an interesting "IF"! There is a legally enforcable custom, practice
and usage on USENET that disallows BUSINESS VENTURE usage of USENET. How a
contract will be draftedwith this in mind is also interesting since any
contract written will be required to offer VALID access and responses without
using USENET AT ALL!>
>Put simply, a ClariNet subscriber that passes his ClariNet feed on is breaking
>the law. Perhaps, Mr da Silva, your jaundiced world view won't permit you
>to believe that there are people that would choose to abide by the law, and
>the ClariNet contract, but we do exist.
Yes, we do exist. The law however, regardless of who exists, does not allow
others to benefit from the deeds of a third party without giving that third
party compensation for the expenses incurred, i.e., USENET may seek
compensation for the use that the BUSINESS VENTURE is obtaining. To take
my telephone time and expense for the BUSINESS VENTURE is unconscionable in
my opinion. While I may handle mail and even news for others I certainly do
not do so in order to support another BUSINESS VENTURE.
If that BUSINESS VENTURE wants to use public domain software that is fine
but keep its use out of the USENET paths, including the reply mail and
postings.
--
Gregory G. Petersen, Esq. g...@lawnet.LawNet.Com
Petersen & Trott, A Law Corporation (714) 971-1441
770 The City Drive South, Suite 2100
Orange, California 92668
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!mica.berkeley.edu!wisner
From: wis...@mica.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Wisner)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Live News & Professional Electronic Publications in USENET Format
Message-ID: <WISNER.89Jun12135437@anableps.berkeley.edu>
Date: 12 Jun 89 20:54:37 GMT
References: <3492@looking.on.ca> <4494@ficc.uu.net> <WISNER.89Jun11121944@anableps.berkeley.edu> <307@lawnet.LawNet.Com>
Sender: use...@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: Amnesia International
Lines: 58
In-reply-to: greg@lawnet.LawNet.Com's message of 12 Jun 89 16:51:33 GMT
In article <3...@lawnet.LawNet.Com> Gregory Petersen does an exceptionally
good job of being exceptionally obtuse:
>If this BUSINESS VENTURE going to use the usenet
>paths for mail and to otherwise respond to the PURIFIED news that the BUSINESS
>VENTURE is going to generate then KEEP IT THE HELL OF MY SYSTEMS since I don't
>particularly want to pay for either the front end or the rear end of the
>BUSINESS VENTURE.
ClariNet is a vehicle for the distribution of various news services. It is
not USENET. It is not "UUCPnet". It will not be moving around mail, or
USENET articles. It moves around news. That's all. It will use USENET software,
and some of its customers are sure to be existing USENET sites. But it is
seperate. Got it?
ClariNet will not be a two-way network; it will consist entirely of news feeds
originating at ClariNet headquarters, wherever that may be.
>That should be an interesting contract to read - internationally binding
>and sufficent to be lawful in all jurisdictions that USENET touches.
Brad pointed out to me that he won't really need a contract to make
redistribution of a ClariNet feed illegal, as the newswires carried by
ClariNet are already copyrighted by their originators (UPI, etc).
Copyrights are internationally binding, no?
>That is an interesting "IF"! There is a legally enforcable custom, practice
>and usage on USENET that disallows BUSINESS VENTURE usage of USENET.
Brad's use of USENET consists of advertising and that's about all. He posted
his plug to comp.newprod, which I'm sure everyone agrees is an appropriate
place, and to news.admin because he thought his venture would be of interest
to USENET administrators. The response leads me to judge that USENET
administrators are, indeed, interested.
Are you a lawyer, Mr Petersen? If so that could explain much.
>To take
>my telephone time and expense for the BUSINESS VENTURE is unconscionable in
>my opinion. While I may handle mail and even news for others I certainly do
>not do so in order to support another BUSINESS VENTURE.
Wake up! Take a strong stimulant and re-read Brad's announcement very, very
carefully. Your telephone time and expense will never be used to move ClariNet
traffic around. You, in fact, WILL NEVER SEE CLARINET, unless you pay for it.
Or break the law. The only machines that receive -- and transmit -- ClariNet
will be ClariNet's customers.
>If that BUSINESS VENTURE wants to use public domain software that is fine
>but keep its use out of the USENET paths, including the reply mail and
>postings.
What reply mail? Letters to the editor? Did you even BOTHER to read the
ClariNet announcement, or are you flaming for the hell of it?
Duh.
w
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!bloom-beacon!usc!orion.cf.uci.edu!uci-ics!na...@paris.ics.uci.edu
From: na...@paris.ics.uci.edu (Mark Nagel)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Live News & Professional Electronic Publications in USENET Format
Message-ID: <17588@paris.ics.uci.edu>
Date: 13 Jun 89 00:51:53 GMT
References: <3492@looking.on.ca> <4494@ficc.uu.net> <WISNER.89Jun11121944@anableps.berkeley.edu> <307@lawnet.LawNet.Com> <WISNER.89Jun12135437@anableps.berkeley.edu>
Sender: n...@paris.ics.uci.edu
Reply-To: na...@paris.ics.uci.edu (Mark Nagel)
Organization: University of California, Irvine - Dept of ICS
Lines: 56
In-reply-to: wisner@mica.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Wisner)
In article <WISNER.89Jun12135...@anableps.berkeley.edu>, wisner@mica (Bill Wisner) writes:
|ClariNet is a vehicle for the distribution of various news services. It is
|not USENET. It is not "UUCPnet". It will not be moving around mail, or
|USENET articles. It moves around news. That's all. It will use USENET software,
|and some of its customers are sure to be existing USENET sites. But it is
|seperate. Got it?
I completely agree with this and thought of the same things while
reading the referenced article, _but_ then I remembered a little
thing:
/*
* This software is Copyright (c) 1986 by Rick Adams.
*
* Permission is hereby granted to copy, reproduce, redistribute or
* otherwise use this software as long as: there is no monetary
* profit gained specifically from the use or reproduction or this
* software, it is not sold, rented, traded or otherwise marketed, and
* this copyright notice is included prominently in any copy
* made.
*
* The author make no claims as to the fitness or correctness of
* this software for any use whatsoever, and it is provided as is.
* Any use of this software is at the user's own risk.
*
* inews - insert, receive, and transmit news articles.
*
*/
I'm curious what Mr. Adams has to say about Clarinet if indeed Brad
will be using Usenet software (i.e., B News) as the logical transport
system. Do all other news systems (e.g., C News, TMNN) have similar
constraints?
In any event, I think this is what most people have been upset with
even if they haven't quite said it. No one is against anyone making
money (I hope). What they are upset about is someone making money
from something that has _traditionally_ been a cooperative, shared
system. For example, when I read that Brad will sell or license his
nifty newsreading software, the first thought I had was, "Gee, many
other people have written a lot of software for the general well-being
of the net and not asked anything for their efforts." It isn't
_wrong_ to do so, it is just not in the so-called spirit of Usenet
(something I dare not try to define). But the net has been built on
the generous contributions of time and effort made by hundreds of
individuals. I believe people are a little perturbed that Brad will
be among the first to use that collective effort as a commercial
platform. Now, if he wrote _all_ of his own software (i.e., a
complete news system functionally equivalent to the current system),
then there'd be absolutely no reason to complain.
Mark Nagel @ UC Irvine, Department of Information and Computer Science
+----------------------------------------+
ARPA: na...@ics.uci.edu | If you improve something long enough |
UUCP: ucbvax!ucivax!nagel | eventually you will throw it away. |
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!rick
From: r...@uunet.UU.NET (Rick Adams)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Live News & Professional Electronic Publications in USENET Format
Summary: read it
Message-ID: <58223@uunet.UU.NET>
Date: 19 Jun 89 03:38:09 GMT
References: <3492@looking.on.ca> <4494@ficc.uu.net> <17588@paris.ics.uci.edu>
Organization: UUNET Communications Services, Falls Church, VA
Lines: 6
If you read the news copyright, it prohibits selling or renting the
news software itself.
I fail to see how anyone can interpret it to prohibit from using the
software for any legal purpose as long as the software itself is
freely used.
Newsgroups: news.admin
Path: utzoo!henry
From: he...@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Live News & Professional Electronic Publications in USENET Format
Message-ID: <1989Jun19.192218.4492@utzoo.uucp>
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
References: <3492@looking.on.ca> <4494@ficc.uu.net> <WISNER.89Jun11121944@anableps.berkeley.edu> <307@lawnet.LawNet.Com> <WISNER.89Jun12135437@anableps.berkeley.edu> <17588@paris.ics.uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 89 19:22:18 GMT
In article <17...@paris.ics.uci.edu> na...@paris.ics.uci.edu (Mark Nagel) writes:
>... Do all other news systems (e.g., C News, TMNN) have similar
>constraints?
I can't speak for TMNN. C News does not. The only requirements we impose
are essentially that proper credit be given, both for the original software
and for any changes made after it left our hands.
--
You *can* understand sendmail, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
but it's not worth it. -Collyer| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry he...@zoo.toronto.edu
|