PUPS: status report

From: Warren Toomey < wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199807290355.NAA05056@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PUPS: status report
To: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:55:36 +1000 (EST)
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Hi all,
	Not much has been hapenning in the PDP UNIX Preservation Society.
Kirk McKusick is still waiting for the CD pressing company to do his run
of 4BSD CDs. I'm urging him to make a web page describing the project, so
we can stay informed of the progress.

A few people in comp.unix.bsd.misc suggested that another preservation
society needs to be formed, to preserve 32-bit UNIXes and other non PDP-11
UNIXes. I've set up a mailing list for them to discuss such a project.
If you are interested, then you can join the mailing list by emailing
to majordomo@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, with a line in the body saying:

	subscribe bups

BUPS stands for BIG UNIX Preservation Society. I'm sure they will come
up with a better name :-)

Cheers all,

	Warren

From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" < rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199807291503.LAA03577@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: PUPS and BUPS (burp!) thoughts.....
In-Reply-To: <199807290355.NAA05056@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Jul 29, 98 01:55:36 pm"
To: wkt@cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:03:47 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, bups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> Hi all,
> 	Not much has been hapenning in the PDP UNIX Preservation Society.
> Kirk McKusick is still waiting for the CD pressing company to do his run
> of 4BSD CDs. I'm urging him to make a web page describing the project, so
> we can stay informed of the progress.

This will be great when it happens.  Kudos to Kirk.....and all the unsung
heroes along the path to Nirvana.

> A few people in comp.unix.bsd.misc suggested that another preservation
> society needs to be formed, to preserve 32-bit UNIXes and other non PDP-11
> UNIXes. I've set up a mailing list for them to discuss such a project.
> If you are interested, then you can join the mailing list by emailing
> to majordomo@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, with a line in the body saying:
> 
> 	subscribe bups
> 
> BUPS stands for BIG UNIX Preservation Society. I'm sure they will come
> up with a better name :-)

PUPS, BUPS, burp!  Sounds fine!

I will jump in the hotseat and own up to the heat.  My idea was very simple.
Mainly, I was thinking that there are beginning to surface from the bilges
of surplus, a fair number of aging old-time unix toys.  Not all of them
are PDP-11ish flavor.  For instance, there are sometimes found some of the
ancient Radio Shack Model 16 things with an odd flavor of Xenix on them.
There are maybe some old vaxen going wanting.  There are odd bilgewater
sloshers like my old IBM RT that once did ply the waters of the great BSD
(of the 4.3 style flavor).  Also, there are older x86 toys that use to
run the very lowendian V7ish, Xenixish, whateverish flavors.  From the
purely hobby and historical perspective, I find it rather wasteful to
let such things just vaporize.  It seems we have the PDP11 world, then
there is a big black hole until the modern SCOish and Freebieish things.
It is obvious that none of the old toys are going to be competing with
the rush to NT and SCOish things.  Thus, there is a need to maybe fill
that hole with something like the PUPS, but for 32bitish toys, and all
the non-PDP-11 toys.

One thing that PUPS has going, is a good working basis with all the
unixy world, the big players, the historical saints, etc.  So, it was
logical to perceive that such a working framework might be expanded
slightly to include not just 32V, but all the odd successors, down to
where SCO claims rightly its territory on the SysV part of the tree.

IF that framework is a BUPS offshoot, so-be-it.  But, I still think that
both PUPS and the new BUPS share much common cammaraderie and playground.

Alas, I am not yet of sufficient rank to be called but a lowly journeyman,
in the unixy world.  I have run it in earnest for some 10 years, played 
some with it on a PDP-11, so long ago, that it is mostly forgotten, and
still keep a set of 8 inch Xenix floppers around, just in case that mystical
Model 16B drops by, again.  Thus, there is not a lot I can do.  But, I do toss
out the idea, would like to see where it goes.  Mebbie some heavyweight
gurus would like to run with it some.....

Let us roll it around a bit, and see where the currents takes us.
The 32BitBiggieUPS should not be forgotten.  I think it can only be good
for all to make it play.....

Sincerely

R.D. Keys
rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu

> Cheers all,
> 	Warren

Cheers all hands aboard PUPS, BUPS, .... burp!, .... whatever.....

RDK

From: Warren Toomey < wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199807310120.LAA08798@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: OUPS (was: PUPS and BUPS (burp!) thoughts.....)
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:20:35 +1000 (EST)
Cc: rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu, wkt@cs.adfa.oz.au,
        pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, bups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <19980731094513.U7830@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jul 31, 98 09:45:13 am"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> Are we really so many disparate people that we need two lists?  I'd
> guess that most people would be on both lists.  How about just a name
> change, to "Old UNIX Preservation Society"?
> 
> Greg

I don't know, I thought that it would give people more flexibility,
and shield people from stuff they didn't want to see. So lets ask:

If you're on the PUPS list, do you want to see stuff about non PDP-11 Unixes?

If you're on the BUPS list, do you want to see stuff about PDP-11 Unixes.

Cheers all,

	Warren

Message-ID: <35C138FB.A77E57E3@halcyon.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:24:43 -0700
From: "David C. Jenner" 
Reply-To: djenner@halcyon.com
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To: bups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
CC: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: OUPS (was: PUPS and BUPS (burp!) thoughts.....)
References: <199807310120.LAA08798@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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I vote for one list.  Leave it PUPS, and call it the
Past/Prehistoric/Perpetual Unix Preservation Society
or something like that.  Or think up a "P" adjective
that glorifies the olden Unix.

Almost everything has been cross-posted up to this point,
and I get two copies anyway!

Dave

Warren Toomey wrote:
> 
> In article by Greg Lehey:
> > Are we really so many disparate people that we need two lists?  I'd
> > guess that most people would be on both lists.  How about just a name
> > change, to "Old UNIX Preservation Society"?
> >
> > Greg
> 
> I don't know, I thought that it would give people more flexibility,
> and shield people from stuff they didn't want to see. So lets ask:
> 
> If you're on the PUPS list, do you want to see stuff about non PDP-11 Unixes?
> 
> If you're on the BUPS list, do you want to see stuff about PDP-11 Unixes.
> 
> Cheers all,
> 
>         Warren

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:29:46 +0500
From: Stacy Minkin < stacy@asia.uznet.net>
Message-Id: <199807310529.KAA01933@harrier.Uznet.NET>
To: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Let'em be one!
Sender: owner-pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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I also vote for one list.

Stacy.

From: Warren Toomey < wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199807310554.PAA09629@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Let'em be one!
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:54:00 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199807310529.KAA01933@harrier.Uznet.NET> from Stacy Minkin at "Jul 31, 98 10:29:46 am"
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In article by Stacy Minkin:
> 
> I also vote for one list [about old UNIX].
> Stacy.

Looks like most people would like a common list, so I have merged the
two lists. The PUPS list is now for Prehistoric UNIX :-) I'll keep the
PUPS web page about PDP-11 stuff for now, though.

The bups@minnie list is gone, and all mail for the list should
now go to pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au.

What next?

	Warren

From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" < rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199807312253.SAA09506@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: OUPS (was: PUPS and BUPS (burp!) thoughts.....)
In-Reply-To: <19980731094513.U7830@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jul 31, 98 09:45:13 am"
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:53:31 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: wkt@cs.adfa.oz.au, pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, bups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> On Wednesday, 29 July 1998 at 11:03:47 -0400, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote:
> >> BUPS stands for BIG UNIX Preservation Society. I'm sure they will come
> >> up with a better name :-)
> >
> > PUPS, BUPS, burp!  Sounds fine!
> 
> Are we really so many disparate people that we need two lists?  I'd
> guess that most people would be on both lists.  How about just a name
> change, to "Old UNIX Preservation Society"?
> 
> Greg

No, and my original thought was to fold it all under PUPS, but, I sense
that Warren was not wanting to do that.

For heaven's sakes, let us roll with the flow, and do what is best for
all aboard.  If that is one list, fine.... or two lists, fine.
It was just a thought.....

I would just like to see other orphan unices included in the philosophy
behind PUPS, before they go vaporware, forever.

How it gets there is unimportant, and for sure we don't want any politics
or bent feelers involved.

It is more important that we get it done, however it happens to get there.

Bob Keys