PUPS Volunteers list

From: Warren Toomey < wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032149.IAA17305@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PUPS Volunteers list
To: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:49:10 +1100 (EST)
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All,
	I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.

If you had volunteered but didn't receive any email about it today, please
mail me back as I've missed you somehow.

Still waiting on Dion re the final license document and the questions
regarding Mastercard and `intermediate' CPUs.

Cheers all,

	Warren

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:32:54 -0500
From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199803032232.AA27033@world.std.com>
To: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
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<	I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
< volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
< software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.

Query:

The license is more concerned with source level code.  What about those of 
us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?

Allison

From: Warren Toomey < wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032236.JAA17613@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Binary-only PDP UNIX
To: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:36:47 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803032232.AA27033@world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 3, 98 05:32:54 pm"
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In article by Allison J Parent:
> <	I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
> < volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
> < software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.
> 
> The license is more concerned with source level code.  What about those of 
> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?

You can pick up binaries for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX for free,
as they are already covered by a SCO license. See

	http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/Licenses/v7_bin_license.txt

If you also look at the PUPS Home Page

	http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS

you can pick up RK05 disk images for all three edition, as part of
Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator.

	Warren

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:17:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" < sms@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803040117.RAA13880@moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
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> From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
> Query:
> 
> The license is more concerned with source level code.  What about those of 
> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?

	If you don't plan on staying current with parts that change then
	a binary only system might work.  I can't see myself volunteering
	to build binaries (especially kernels) for varying configurations.

	The older, 'static' or frozen (for now), distributions can be run
	binary only - but the traditional method of updating systems was
	to either distribute diffs  or replacement source modules.  

	One main reason for this, especially in the kernel (but also some
	applications level stuff), is that the address space of a PDP-11 does
	not allow the luxury of including all ways of doing something.  For
	example:  the C library has to be build for either 'hosts' file or
	resolver routines - can't do both.  So someone's running a binary
	only release but with a hosts file orientation.  THey want updated
	binaries but all my systems are resolver based - building new binaries
	would be painful and time consuming.  What happens when a system 
	include file changes and all (or many) of the binaries in the system
	are affected - who's going to volunteer to recompile the system and
	make a new CD for the folks who don't want to maintain current sources?

	In the kernel arena it's even worse - who ever builds a kernel would 
	have to request a 'config' file (do you want 'quotas' or not, do you
	want 'networking' and if so which ethernet card, do you want 1 or 2 
	MSCP controllers, and so on.  Ick.) and custom build a kernel (can't 
	include _all_ possible devices, etc because it just won't fit).  I 
	don't know about any one else but I'd rather not get into the 
	providing custom kernels and binaries.

	From V5 on (I can't speak for earlier) you were expected to have a
	source license (which thanks to SCO's help we now will have) and
	install/maintain the system from those.  Binary only setups were
	extremely uncommon (except in shops with lots of machines and they'd
	have a single 'master' source system and build and distribute from 
	that).  

	Configurability is very limited without sources and I'd have thought
	that everyone would be dancing with joy at being freed from binary
	only releases.

	As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
	images already available without requiring a source license at all.
	There's no need to pay the minimal $100 for the upcoming license if
	all that's desired is a binary only system that's preconfigured for
	a limited set of devices.  (re)configuration takes sources. 

	So I guess the question is who's volunteering to build and distribute
	the binary only kits?  Not me ;-)

	Steven Schultz

Message-ID: <19980304160706.51098@freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:07:06 +1030
From: Greg Lehey < grog@lemis.com>
To: "Steven M. Schultz" < sms@moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: PDP UNIX Preservation Society < pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
References: <199803040117.RAA13880@moe.2bsd.com>
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On Tue,  3 March 1998 at 17:17:18 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>> From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
>> Query:
>>
>> The license is more concerned with source level code.  What about those of
>> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
>
> 	If you don't plan on staying current with parts that change then
> 	a binary only system might work.  I can't see myself volunteering
> 	to build binaries (especially kernels) for varying configurations.
>
>	(omitting detailled explanation)
>
> 	I
> 	don't know about any one else but I'd rather not get into the
> 	providing custom kernels and binaries.

All good reasons.  I suppose I could give access to an emulator over
the net if anybody wants to do it themselves.  This is not the way to
go if you have your own machine with enough storage, but it might be
if you're low on storage.

> 	As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
> 	images already available without requiring a source license at
>	all.

JOOI, where are these?

Greg

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:24:45 -0500
From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199803041324.AA26543@world.std.com>
To: pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
Sender: owner-pups@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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<	have a single 'master' source system and build and distribute from 
<	that).  

For me that would be perfectly useless as the only PDP-11 compuler is the 
DECUS-C and ti's far to minimal to crunch that.  Chicken and egg.  Right 
now I need the chicken on my 11/73 before I can consider the sources
and then I have to configure enough storage to hold them.

<	that everyone would be dancing with joy at being freed from binary
<	only releases.

I sorta am but for me $100 might as well be $10,000.

<
<	As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
<	images already available without requiring a source license at 
Their problem is from what I can tell is they are not runable on my 
11/73 with the hardware I have.  There is that little problem of 
transfering them (via RT-11?).

My config, call it a sanity test to see if there is an existant binary I 
can run:

11/73 1mb non-pmi ram
DLV11j
RQDX3 rx33, rx52(x2) (rx53 available)
RX02
RLV12 and one RL02
TK50

I can swap a DHV-11 for the DLV11j.
I can put in 1 more meg of non-pmi ram.
The TK50 is shared with a VAX.
RT-11 V5 running.
There are no RKxxs available.

I expect I'll never be able to network the 11s I have, nor will I have 
adaquate resources (Disk) to compile the kernel.  I will not discuss the
11/23 or the pro350 sitting next to them as it's been implied they could 
only run the oldest versions due to lack of I&D space.

Allison