From: Rahul Siddharthan <rs...@physics.iisc.ernet.in>
Subject: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
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I saw this mail on another list and thought I'd pass it on here.
Since it's not the first time I've seen attacks on linux's
reliability I thought it's worth bringing it up. I dont know
whether an electronic version of this interview exists...

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Ken Thompson is interviewed in this month's _IEEE Computer_
magazine on UNIX and developments.  At one point during the
interview, Computer asks him what he thinks of Linux.  Here's his
response (any typos are mine, and I show italics via <em> and
</em>):

"Thompson: I view Linux as something that's not Microsoft -- a backlash
against Microsoft, no more and no less.  I don't think it will be very
successful in the long run.  I've looked at the source, and there are
pieces that are good and pieces that are not.  A whole bunch of random
people have contributed to this source, and the quality varies
drastically.
    My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is
quite unreliable.  Microsoft is <em>really</em> unreliable but Linux is
<em>worse</em>.  In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up.  If
you're using it on a single box, that's one thing.  But if you want to use
Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long
way to go."



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From: alex.bu...@tahallah.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
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On Tue, 4 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote:

> Ken Thompson is interviewed in this month's _IEEE Computer_ magazine
> on UNIX and developments.  At one point during the interview, Computer
> asks him what he thinks of Linux.  Here's his response (any typos are
> mine, and I show italics via <em> and </em>):

Oh haha... I can't believe this guy. Hahaha what a joke this guy is.

Unreliable and Linux in the same sentence? He must be on some really good
drugs, and if so I want some! 

Cheers,
Alex
--
"A mind opened by new ideas cannot return to its original limits"

http://www.tahallah.demon.co.uk


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From: Alexander Viro <v...@math.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
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On Tue, 4 May 1999 alex.bu...@tahallah.demon.co.uk wrote:

> On Tue, 4 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote:
> 
> > Ken Thompson is interviewed in this month's _IEEE Computer_ magazine
> > on UNIX and developments.  At one point during the interview, Computer
> > asks him what he thinks of Linux.  Here's his response (any typos are
> > mine, and I show italics via <em> and </em>):
> 
> Oh haha... I can't believe this guy. Hahaha what a joke this guy is.

Hrrrmp... You know, this guy is the author of UNIX. No kidding. I disagree
with him (as if he cared), but at least some respect is in order here.
Basic design of the system + many years of development are worth
something. Linux is written from scratch, but we owe *lot* to Ken and
Dennis. Not to mention anything else, without their work most likely
history would look, well, ugly - Vomit Making System everywhere. And you
can look at the state of FreeVMS project to evaluate the odds of getting
any free system in that case (inherent ugliness of VMS misdesign aside).

It's mostly unwarranted, pretty bitter and sad, but if there is somebody
who deserves our respect at all then Ken *is* such man. No matter how
strongly we disagree his opinion. We definitely owe him that much.


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From: alex.bu...@tahallah.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
Message-ID: <fa.gf4kf1v.b241g7@ifi.uio.no>#1/1
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On Tue, 4 May 1999, Alexander Viro wrote:

> Hrrrmp... You know, this guy is the author of UNIX. No kidding. I
> disagree with him (as if he cared), but at least some respect is in
> order here. Basic design of the system + many years of development are
> worth something. Linux is written from scratch, but we owe *lot* to
> Ken and Dennis. Not to mention anything else, without their work most
> likely history would look, well, ugly - Vomit Making System
> everywhere. And you can look at the state of FreeVMS project to
> evaluate the odds of getting any free system in that case (inherent
> ugliness of VMS misdesign aside).

I have to disagree with you on this. Respect is earned not automatically
given. He might be the father of UNIX but the first incarnations of UNIX
were ugly. and also, I would have thought that he would have at least
TRIED Linux himself, installing it, configurating it, and using it. There
is no substitute, especially with all his background & experience. I think
he has made a big mistake by basing decisions upon some
crippled/broken/badly configured Linux systems that he only used/saw. How
can I give him respect if he did that?

I also take issue about VMS. It's NOT that bad!! It's beautiful! If you
want to see a really broken operating system, I refer you to Windows NT,
but then you knew that didn't you? 
 
> It's mostly unwarranted, pretty bitter and sad, but if there is
> somebody who deserves our respect at all then Ken *is* such man. No
> matter how strongly we disagree his opinion. We definitely owe him
> that much.

I'll concede on that point. But still... 

Cheers,
Alex
--
"A mind opened by new ideas cannot return to its original limits"

http://www.tahallah.demon.co.uk


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From: Wojtek Pilorz <wpil...@bdk.pl>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
Message-ID: <fa.jvt37av.cmka31@ifi.uio.no>#1/1
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Hi,

just some of my thoughts on the subject...

On Tue, 4 May 1999 alex.bu...@tahallah.demon.co.uk wrote:

> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:36:16 +0100 (BST)
> From: alex.bu...@tahallah.demon.co.uk
> To: Alexander Viro <v...@math.psu.edu>
> Cc: Linux-kernel <linux-ker...@vger.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
> 
> On Tue, 4 May 1999, Alexander Viro wrote:
> 
> > Hrrrmp... You know, this guy is the author of UNIX. No kidding. I
> > disagree with him (as if he cared), but at least some respect is in
> > order here. Basic design of the system + many years of development are
> > worth something. Linux is written from scratch, but we owe *lot* to
> > Ken and Dennis. Not to mention anything else, without their work most
> > likely history would look, well, ugly - Vomit Making System
> > everywhere. And you can look at the state of FreeVMS project to
> > evaluate the odds of getting any free system in that case (inherent
> > ugliness of VMS misdesign aside).
> 
> I have to disagree with you on this. Respect is earned not automatically
I think he have very well earned much respect by creating UNIX;
I would say he is one of the giants whose work made many nice things
(including Linux!) possible ...

> given. He might be the father of UNIX but the first incarnations of UNIX
> were ugly. and also, I would have thought that he would have at least
> TRIED Linux himself, installing it, configurating it, and using it. There
> is no substitute, especially with all his background & experience. I think
> he has made a big mistake by basing decisions upon some
> crippled/broken/badly configured Linux systems that he only used/saw. How
> can I give him respect if he did that?
While I have not read the interview in IEEE Computer yet, please let me
quote a fragment of earlier post:
"Thompson: I view Linux as something that's not Microsoft -- a backlash
against Microsoft, no more and no less.  I don't think it will be very
successful in the long run.  I've looked at the source, and there are
pieces that are good and pieces that are not.  A whole bunch of random
people have contributed to this source, and the quality varies
drastically.
"

So my understanding is that his opinions are based on reading Linux source
code, rather than looking at any badly configured Linux system.
And I would believe he knows what he is talking about, being one of the
principal authors of UNIX, no matter how much we could dislike
those opinions.

Maybe it would be much better for the Linux and its users we try to hear
and understand what he has to say (assuming he would want to talk with 
the Linux community;)


> 
> I also take issue about VMS. It's NOT that bad!! It's beautiful! If you
> want to see a really broken operating system, I refer you to Windows NT,
> but then you knew that didn't you? 
>  
> > It's mostly unwarranted, pretty bitter and sad, but if there is
> > somebody who deserves our respect at all then Ken *is* such man. No
> > matter how strongly we disagree his opinion. We definitely owe him
> > that much.
> 
> I'll concede on that point. But still... 
> 
> Cheers,
> Alex
> --
> "A mind opened by new ideas cannot return to its original limits"
> 
> http://www.tahallah.demon.co.uk
> 
> 
Best regards,

Wojtek


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From: Mark Lord <ml...@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
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Wojtek Pilorz wrote:
...
> So my understanding is that his opinions are based on reading Linux source
> code, rather than looking at any badly configured Linux system.
...

And from that a comparism is drawn against WinNT,
for which he has not been able to read any source code..  ?!?!?!
-- 
ml...@pobox.com

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From: Mark Hull-Richter <ma...@procom.com>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
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Rahul Siddharthan wrote:
> 
> I saw this mail on another list and thought I'd pass it on here.
> Since it's not the first time I've seen attacks on linux's
> reliability I thought it's worth bringing it up. I dont know
> whether an electronic version of this interview exists...
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> 
> Ken Thompson is interviewed in this month's _IEEE Computer_
> magazine on UNIX and developments.  At one point during the
> interview, Computer asks him what he thinks of Linux.  Here's his
> response (any typos are mine, and I show italics via <em> and
> </em>):
> 
> "Thompson: I view Linux as something that's not Microsoft -- a backlash
> against Microsoft, no more and no less.  I don't think it will be very
> successful in the long run.  I've looked at the source, and there are
> pieces that are good and pieces that are not.  A whole bunch of random
> people have contributed to this source, and the quality varies
> drastically.
>     My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is
> quite unreliable.  Microsoft is <em>really</em> unreliable but Linux is
> <em>worse</em>.  In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up.  If
> you're using it on a single box, that's one thing.  But if you want to use
> Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long
> way to go."
> 

Consider this: The professional programming community has taken a long
time (almost ten years?) to look at Linux as a useful, viable product. 
Only recently have the commercial software giants begun to endorse it,
and only with reservations - you still have to ask for Linux when you
buy a machine from Compaq or Sun.  Is it possible that Ken's remarks
might have something to do with this?

Knee-jerk reactions like "he must be on drugs" or "he doesn't know what
he's talking about" are kind of strange when directed toward an
accomplished software professional like Ken Thompson, especially
considering that he is not only the co-creator of UNIX but that he
worked on it for years improving it to a point where one of the biggest
software giants of all, AT&T, began to market it.  AT&T made a fortune
on UNIX until they sold it.  That says a lot.

The real question is: how many of you will look at this with an open
mind?
 
Isn't there (a LOT of) room for improvement in Linux?  If not, why are
we moving towards 2.3 and beyond with an eye toward CORRECTING some of
its flaws?

Comments welcome; flames ignored.


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From: Steve VanDevender <ste...@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
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Mark Lord writes:
 > Wojtek Pilorz wrote:
 > ...
 > > So my understanding is that his opinions are based on reading Linux source
 > > code, rather than looking at any badly configured Linux system.
 > ...
 > 
 > And from that a comparism is drawn against WinNT,
 > for which he has not been able to read any source code..  ?!?!?!

AT&T has a source license to an older version of NT, as they were
(or maybe still are) suing Microsoft for access to source for
newer versions.  So it's not inconceivable that Thompson has seen 
NT source code.

Considering that Thompson has worked on OSes that were developed
by fairly small and well-coordinated groups of people (UNIX with
Dennis Ritchie, Plan 9 with Rob Pike et al) his perception that
Linux looks a bit fragmented and chaotic makes some sense.  That
he considers Linux to be purely a backlash against Microsoft does 
seem to indicate he doesn't really know much about the history of 
Linux, though.


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Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk)
Tue, 4 May 1999 19:20:22 +0100 (BST)

> Consider this: The professional programming community has taken a long
> time (almost ten years?) to look at Linux as a useful, viable product.

Its not that old 8)

> Isn't there (a LOT of) room for improvement in Linux? If not, why are
> we moving towards 2.3 and beyond with an eye toward CORRECTING some of
> its flaws?

There is a lot yes. But his comments are mostly rather inaccurate on the
reliability side. Ask cobalt if the Linux/mips kernel they ship in the Qube
seems to be less reliable than windows.

Its also far from clear how accurately reported his comments are or in what
context.

Alan

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From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <ty...@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
Message-ID: <fa.epjus5v.j48qp0@ifi.uio.no>#1/1
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I did see Ken Thompson's article in IEEE Spectrum, and while I'm curious
about why he thinks Linux is "unreliable", it's probably not worth
argueing about.  Let's try to spend our energy working on those parts of
Linux which could stand to be improved (and they do exist!) as opposed
to flame people who dare utter things that we don't like to hear.  It's
a waste of time, and it simply hurts the Linux community.  Better to
spend our energy making them even more wrong than they are today.  :-)

						- Ted

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From: Andrea Arcangeli <and...@e-mind.com>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
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On Tue, 4 May 1999, Mark Lord wrote:

>Wojtek Pilorz wrote:
>...
>> So my understanding is that his opinions are based on reading Linux source
>> code, rather than looking at any badly configured Linux system.
>...
>
>And from that a comparism is drawn against WinNT,
>for which he has not been able to read any source code..  ?!?!?!

Not to tell that I never had access to any IEEE or POSIX specs. Not to
tell that I never had access to the sources of his unix.

It would be nice if he could tell me what is not been well designed in
Linux so I could start working to fix it.

Obviously I suppose he is not talking about some device driver.

Andrea Arcangeli


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From: Nix <nix-ker...@esperi.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/04
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alex.bu...@tahallah.demon.co.uk writes:

> On Tue, 4 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote:
> 
> > Ken Thompson is interviewed in this month's _IEEE Computer_ magazine
> > on UNIX and developments.  At one point during the interview, Computer
> > asks him what he thinks of Linux.  Here's his response (any typos are
> > mine, and I show italics via <em> and </em>):
> 
> Oh haha... I can't believe this guy. Hahaha what a joke this guy is.

He knows what he's talking about in most areas; he certainly isn't a
`joke'.

He wrote Unix, for goodness' sake!

> Unreliable and Linux in the same sentence?

That is odd. Possibly he had bad luck with hardware, or something
similar...

-- 
/* I hate C so much... */ --- jwz, in driver/xscreensaver.c

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Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd) 
Date: 1999/05/05
Message-ID: <fa.hqq9mev.6kqq29@ifi.uio.no>#1/1
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>>>Steve VanDevender said:
 > [...]
 > Linux looks a bit fragmented and chaotic makes some sense.  That
 > he considers Linux to be purely a backlash against Microsoft does 
 > seem to indicate he doesn't really know much about the history of 
 > Linux, though.

IMHO Linux was more of a backlash against AT&T and the cost of a
UNIX license than Microsoft.  Of course having MSDOS and Windows
3.0 to compare and contrast Linux against was a great benifit --
I am sure.

---------------------------------
       G. Allen Morris III

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From: Larry McVoy <l...@bitmover.com>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd) 
Date: 1999/05/05
Message-ID: <fa.g92b26v.1i2cabr@ifi.uio.no>#1/1
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You guys should listen to Ken.  He is a wise man.  Linux is a great little
OS and is probably the world's greatest software development environment.
On the other hand, there are a bunch of places where it leaves a lot
to be desired.  Using an off the shelf Linux for a firewall vs. using
an off the shelf Solaris as a firewall is an interesting comparison.
Using Linux when you really need 64 bits to work is also an interesting
problem.  I've been through 3 startups which are all Linux based and there
was many a time that I was ready to call Sun (I never did, but it was,
and continues to be, quite painful).

There is a huge difference between using Linux as a build machine and
using it to run 100% of your company.  It's getting better every day,
but Ken is absolutely correct in stating that it has a long way to go.
I don't think that any of us would suggest that our banks place their
databases on Linux today (and those of you who would, please suggest it
to *your* bank, not mine).

That doesn't say anything negative about Linux, by the way.  It just
says we still have work to do.  Which is true.

: alex.bu...@tahallah.demon.co.uk writes:
: 
: > On Tue, 4 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote:
: > 
: > > Ken Thompson is interviewed in this month's _IEEE Computer_ magazine
: > > on UNIX and developments.  At one point during the interview, Computer
: > > asks him what he thinks of Linux.  Here's his response (any typos are
: > > mine, and I show italics via <em> and </em>):
: > 
: > Oh haha... I can't believe this guy. Hahaha what a joke this guy is.
: 
: He knows what he's talking about in most areas; he certainly isn't a
: `joke'.
: 
: He wrote Unix, for goodness' sake!
: 
: > Unreliable and Linux in the same sentence?
: 
: That is odd. Possibly he had bad luck with hardware, or something
: similar...
: 
: -- 
: /* I hate C so much... */ --- jwz, in driver/xscreensaver.c
: 
: -
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From: Steve VanDevender <ste...@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd) 
Date: 1999/05/05
Message-ID: <fa.hus7guv.1olmciq@ifi.uio.no>#1/1
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G. Allen Morris III writes:
 > >>>Steve VanDevender said:
 >  > [...]
 >  > Linux looks a bit fragmented and chaotic makes some sense.  That
 >  > he considers Linux to be purely a backlash against Microsoft does 
 >  > seem to indicate he doesn't really know much about the history of 
 >  > Linux, though.
 > 
 > IMHO Linux was more of a backlash against AT&T and the cost of a
 > UNIX license than Microsoft.  Of course having MSDOS and Windows
 > 3.0 to compare and contrast Linux against was a great benifit --
 > I am sure.

AT&T's lawsuit that delayed the release of 4.4BSD certainly gave
Linux an opportunity to compete more seriously against free BSD
UNIX derivatives.  If a BSD for Intel systems had existed sooner
then even Linus admitted that Linux would probably not exist now.

To call Linux a backlash against anything assumes that people
chose it out of spite, when in most cases people have chosen it
out of preference, certainly more so in the early days.  I didn't 
start running Linux because I wanted to stick it to Microsoft or
AT&T; I ran Linux because it was easily available and because I
really wanted a UNIX-like environment on a home computer.

And if you want to see where Ken Thompson's sense of esthetics
began, I highly recommend buying the now publicly-available
"Lions book", more formally titled _Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th 
Edition with Source Code_, Peer-to-Peer Communications, ISBN
1-57398-013-7.

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Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk)
Wed, 5 May 1999 13:56:51 +0100 (BST)

> AT&T's lawsuit that delayed the release of 4.4BSD certainly gave
> Linux an opportunity to compete more seriously against free BSD
> UNIX derivatives. If a BSD for Intel systems had existed sooner
> then even Linus admitted that Linux would probably not exist now.

Your chronology is wrong there

The history was

Berkeley OS lab gets closed
Lots of people go to BSDI (but not all)
386BSD 0.1 is released - almost uncompilable, needing an FPU but
with patches a hacker could sort of make it work.
Alan orders his 386 PC
Linus released first Linux in vaguely usable form (again you needed some
hair to build it)
Alan's PC arrived
Linux 0.12 needed no FPU, 386BSD needed an FPU
I ran Linux cos I couldnt afford an FPU

The lawsuit was some time after this. About 0.96 if I remember
rightly - It and the legal view that the BSD advertising clause and GPL
were not compliant stopped us using the BSD stack although someone did
indeed do a BSD stack port to Linux (Matthias Urlich from memory).

Microsoft and the overchargning Unix vendors certainly created the climate for
Linux, but I think backlash is way inaccurate. Sadly it and "religion" are
becoming a little too accurate nowdays.

Alan

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From: Richard Gooch <rgo...@atnf.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd) 
Date: 1999/05/05
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Larry McVoy writes:
> You guys should listen to Ken.  He is a wise man.  Linux is a great
> little OS and is probably the world's greatest software development
> environment.  On the other hand, there are a bunch of places where
> it leaves a lot to be desired.  Using an off the shelf Linux for a
> firewall vs. using an off the shelf Solaris as a firewall is an
> interesting comparison.  Using Linux when you really need 64 bits to
> work is also an interesting problem.  I've been through 3 startups
> which are all Linux based and there was many a time that I was ready
> to call Sun (I never did, but it was, and continues to be, quite
> painful).

Agreed, there are gaps. But Solaris isn't without its problems either.

> That doesn't say anything negative about Linux, by the way.  It just
> says we still have work to do.  Which is true.

What seemed negative to me was how he said NT was bad and Linux was
worse. That he considers Linux *worse* than NT was rather surprising.

				Regards,

					Richard....

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From: David <david+nos...@killerlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Date: 1999/05/05
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Larry McVoy wrote:

> You guys should listen to Ken.  He is a wise man.  Linux is a great little
> OS and is probably the world's greatest software development environment.
> On the other hand, there are a bunch of places where it leaves a lot
> to be desired.  Using an off the shelf Linux for a firewall vs. using
> an off the shelf Solaris as a firewall is an interesting comparison.

I use Linux for everything.  Firewalls, applications, programming, DB, etc.

Yes there is a lot that can be done.  What _can_ be done and what _needs_ to be
done are fairly different.


> Using Linux when you really need 64 bits to work is also an interesting
> problem.  I've been through 3 startups which are all Linux based and there
> was many a time that I was ready to call Sun (I never did, but it was,
> and continues to be, quite painful).

Yes.  32bit platforms are becoming irksome to me.  Perception has a strong
value even in the face of fact.  2gig file/mem is a complaint I hear very
frequently now.


> There is a huge difference between using Linux as a build machine and
> using it to run 100% of your company.  It's getting better every day,

Yes, there is.  With it being 100% of my company, I have less headache to deal
with and if necessary, it's easier to fix...generally from anywhere.  It's
easier, faster, and more accessible.


> but Ken is absolutely correct in stating that it has a long way to go.
> I don't think that any of us would suggest that our banks place their
> databases on Linux today (and those of you who would, please suggest it
> to *your* bank, not mine).

I would, in a heartbeat.  Tell me, do you feel more secure that they use
Microsoft?  You would rather they have Microsoft running your money, or Linux?
Have you seen an ATM lately running on Microsoft?  Keep your eyes open.  How
many kiosks do you walk past in a mall that are locked up with the familiar
BSOD or AE banners?


> That doesn't say anything negative about Linux, by the way.  It just
> says we still have work to do.  Which is true.

Yes.  We have a lot of work to do.  In comparison to the peers at the table, we
don't.  In comparison to `The Best' or `Perfect' OS, we have very much work to
do.

I don't advocate complacency in development, but I do think that negative
criticism only pisses people off.  Constructive criticism on the other hand is
well advised.

An axiom we could tender is to lend a strong shoulder to the future, don't
stand by the side nitpicking each other.  I am getting fidgity waiting for 2.3
to start :)

-d

--
 This is Linux Country. On a quiet night, you can hear Windows NT reboot!
  Do you remember how to -think- ? Do you remember how to experiment? Linux
__ is an operating system that brings back the fun and adventure in computing.
\/  for linux-kernel: please read linux/Documentation/* before posting problems


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From: Larry McVoy <l...@bitmover.com>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd) 
Date: 1999/05/06
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: On Wed, 5 May 1999, David wrote:
: >I would, in a heartbeat.  Tell me, do you feel more secure that they use
: >Microsoft?  You would rather they have Microsoft running your money, or Linux?

Umm, I feel it necessary to point out (even though it shouldn't be)
that I was NOT comparing Linux to NT nor was I suggesting that banks put
your bank accounts on NT - they don't.  If you find a bank that puts your
bank account on either Linux or NT I strongly urge you to just take out
all your money and send it to me, it will be quicker and more porductive.

Banks put your bank accounts on IBM mainframes, on HP boxes, on Solaris
boxes, maybe (but unlikely) on DEC Alpha boxes.  In roughly that order.
Ditto for airline reservations, power grids, etc.

Linux isn't remotely close to being able to handle this stuff.  It's a
great OS, I love it dearly and continue to work hard on making it better,
as I'm sure all of you do.  But putting your bank account on the current
thing we call Linux is like letting your child wander around at the edge
of a busy road.  Not a good idea.

I personally disagee with Ken about Linux vs NT - I'd take Linux over NT
for critical stuff any day, at least I can fix Linux.  But that's not the
point - compoeting with NT is silly, that would lower Linux' standards.
Compete with IBM mainframes if you want that market.  Ignore NT - it will
take them decades to even think about replacing IBM mainframes.  Linux, on
the other hand, has a shot.

We can rule the world, but we aren't going to do it by comparing ourselves
against junk.  Step up to the good stuff, ignore that Redmond generated
stuff which attempts to pass as an OS.

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From: Davide Libenzi <dlibe...@maticad.it>
Subject: Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd) 
Date: 1999/05/09
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Hi guys,

I think we can consider to stop here this topic and follow the Linus line to keep it 
away from the kernel list and possibly from all.
This is the place where we must deal to make a better Linux and leave time to decide 
if Mr Thompson is right about the future of our OS.

Bye all,
		Davide.

--
"Debian, the Freedom in Freedom."



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Re: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine (fwd)
Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk)
Thu, 6 May 1999 13:41:52 +0100 (BST)

> boxes, maybe (but unlikely) on DEC Alpha boxes. In roughly that order.

DEC Alpha boxes running VMS are very very common in critical systems. The
clustering and the superb batch performance matter a lot.

Alan

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