Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:14:04 -0700
dan_gora,
You might try the upcoming 2.18.1 release. It works nicely on SuSE.
--brian
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, dan_gora wrote:
> Hi All...
>
> John Boyd,
>
> I was reading on the list archive that you did some work with porting
> LiS to kernel versions in the 2.6 range.
>
> 1) Is the work that you did captured in the last release, LiS 2.18.0?
>
> 2) Is it only in LiS 2.17.K?
>
> 3) Did you ever do anything with posting your changes to Sourceforge?
> (there was one thread where you mentioned that you were going to post
> your changes and more to a project on Sourceforge.)
>
> I am being charged with getting LiS working on linux 2.6,
> specifically SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2 for our company's products and
> would like to avoid repeating other people's work if at all possible.
> Of course we'd be willing to post our changes once we are done so
> that everyone doesn't have to suffer through the same thing now that
> it seems that all "official" developement has ceased.
>
> Speaking of official developement, what exactly is going on with LiS
> nowdays? Dave, did you turn over "source manager" duties to someone?
> What exactly happens at this point? Can anyone decree themselves the
> holder of the "offical" tree?
>
> I have a few changes that I did to LiS 2.18.0 to improve the
> performance a bit on SMP systems, but frankly I don't know what to do
> with them. I don't really want to just post them as a set of patches
> to the mailing list... That seems kind of klunky. Should we start a
> sourceforge site for LiS so that everyone has a place to centralize
> the discussion and changes now that Dave has bowed out?
>
> thanks-
> dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-streams mailing list
> Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:14:03 -0700
Paul,
The upcoming 2.18.1 release recognizes SuSE 8.0 through SuSE 9.2, configures,
compiles and even builds RPMs for SuSE. It is as simple as:
./configure
make
make install
of
./configure --enable-maintainer-mode
make rpms
make uninstall removes everything, trys to remove modules, removes libraries,
does ldconfig and depmod after removal, etc...
--brian
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Paul Landay wrote:
> Here are the steps I use to build LiS 2.18.0 on SuSE SLES9 / SuSE 9.1:
>
> # Download the latest kernel (e.g. 2.6.5-7.108) from suse.com
> # We saw problems with the original SuSE 9.1 kernel.
>
> # Make sure you have installed the matching RPMs for:
> kernel-source
> kernel-syms
> and at least one of
> kernel-default
> kernel-smp
> kernel-bigsmp
>
> # Fix up the kernel source tree for SuSE 9.1 2.6.5-7.108
> cd /usr/src/linux-2.6.5-7.108
> make clean
> make mrproper
> make cloneconfig
> make modules_prepare
>
> # use 'smp' or 'bigsmp' instead of 'default' in the next command
> # to match the kernel you are using.
> cp -p /usr/src/linux-2.6.5-7.108-obj/i386/default/Module.symvers \
> /usr/src/linux-2.6.5-7.108/Module.symvers
>
> # Do the LiS build
> cd /usr/src
> tar -xzf LiS-2.18.0.tgz
> cd /usr/src/LiS-2.18
>
> make
> answer N to the third question and then reply:
> /usr/src/linux-2.6.5-7.108
> instead of the default
> make install
> modprobe streams
>
> strtst
>
>
> # Known problems/issues:
>
> make uninstall
> does not remove /usr/lib*/lib*LiS*
> does not rmmod
> does not remove /lib/modules/`uname -r`/misc/*
>
> The change to strmsg.h from LiS 2.16.18 to LiS 2.18.0
> means all apps have to be recompiled. We choose to
> back-level the strmsg.h so our old binaries worked.
>
> Paul Landay
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-streams mailing list
> Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
dan_gora
Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:54:01 -0700
brian_bidulock,
Thanks... We've had it working on SuSE 9.1, 9.2, SuSE EL 9 and RHEL4
plus the 64 bit flavors of the above for a couple of months now. I
posted a couple of lists of the things that I had to change to get
things working for these platforms. I'm sure that they are still in
the archives.
What did you do to fix the problems with syscall interface for 64 bit
platforms? I mentioned in one of my lists that I had to remove all
of those syscalls for 64 bit builds because you cannot call system
calls from within the kernel on 64 bit platforms, it just panics or
freezes the machine.
I never released all of the changes that we at Adax did to LiS 2.18
because I still have not had a chance to go back and fix the ldl
driver which was broken by these changes.
What ever happened with your linux Fast-STREAMS. Did you ever
release that publicly, or is it only available for purchase?
thanks for the new release, looking forward to see it.
-dan
--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> dan_gora,
>
> You might try the upcoming 2.18.1 release. It works nicely on
> SuSE.
>
> --brian
>
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, dan_gora wrote:
>
> > Hi All...
> >
> > John Boyd,
> >
> > I was reading on the list archive that you did some work with
> porting
> > LiS to kernel versions in the 2.6 range.
> >
> > 1) Is the work that you did captured in the last release, LiS
> 2.18.0?
> >
> > 2) Is it only in LiS 2.17.K?
> >
> > 3) Did you ever do anything with posting your changes to
> Sourceforge?
> > (there was one thread where you mentioned that you were going to
> post
> > your changes and more to a project on Sourceforge.)
> >
> > I am being charged with getting LiS working on linux 2.6,
> > specifically SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2 for our company's products and
> > would like to avoid repeating other people's work if at all
> possible.
> > Of course we'd be willing to post our changes once we are done
> so
> > that everyone doesn't have to suffer through the same thing now
> that
> > it seems that all "official" developement has ceased.
> >
> > Speaking of official developement, what exactly is going on with
> LiS
> > nowdays? Dave, did you turn over "source manager" duties to
> someone?
> > What exactly happens at this point? Can anyone decree themselves
> the
> > holder of the "offical" tree?
> >
> > I have a few changes that I did to LiS 2.18.0 to improve the
> > performance a bit on SMP systems, but frankly I don't know what
> to do
> > with them. I don't really want to just post them as a set of
> patches
> > to the mailing list... That seems kind of klunky. Should we
> start a
> > sourceforge site for LiS so that everyone has a place to
> centralize
> > the discussion and changes now that Dave has bowed out?
> >
> > thanks-
> > dan
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-streams mailing list
> > Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> > http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
>
> --
> Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the
> ¦
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in
> ¦
> http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself.
> ¦
> ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the
> ¦
> ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
> ¦
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-streams mailing list
> Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:41:58 -0700
dan_gora,
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, dan_gora wrote:
>
>
> brian_bidulock,
>
> Thanks... We've had it working on SuSE 9.1, 9.2, SuSE EL 9 and RHEL4
> plus the 64 bit flavors of the above for a couple of months now. I
> posted a couple of lists of the things that I had to change to get
> things working for these platforms. I'm sure that they are still in
> the archives.
I don't know what a SuSE EL 9 is, but I have 2.18.1 loading and
running on:
RedHat Linux 7.2
RedHat Linux 7.3
RedHat Linux 8.0
RedHat Linux 9
SuSE 8.0 Professional
SuSE 9.1 Personal
SuSE 9.2 Professional
WhiteBox Enterprise Linux 3 (RH EL3 clone)
CentOS Enterprise Linux 4.0 (RH EL4 clone)
Fedora Core 1
Fedora Core 2
Fedora Core 3
Mandrakelinux 9.2
Mandrakelinux 10.0
Mandrakelinux 10.1
PT NexusWare 24
Debian 3.0r2 (Woody)
The tarball builds a single unitifed SRPM and RPMS for each of
these architecture. It also builds a Debian DSC and DEBs for
Woody.
>
> What did you do to fix the problems with syscall interface for 64 bit
> platforms? I mentioned in one of my lists that I had to remove all
> of those syscalls for 64 bit builds because you cannot call system
> calls from within the kernel on 64 bit platforms, it just panics or
> freezes the machine.
This was fixed on openss7 LiS-2.16.18 releases a long time ago.
On parisc, one cannot execute a system call from within the
kernel. I rip the sys_ symbols on the kernel side of the call
gate and call them directly.
There are probably more things required for full 64-bit safety,
however, I do not have any 64-bit test platforms. Anybody
willing to donate some?
>
> I never released all of the changes that we at Adax did to LiS 2.18
> because I still have not had a chance to go back and fix the ldl
> driver which was broken by these changes.
I have split ldl and related DLPI and NPI modules into a
separate strxns package, however, they build and run against
both LiS-2.18.1 and streams-0.7a.3 (Linux Fast-STREAMS).
>
> What ever happened with your linux Fast-STREAMS. Did you ever
> release that publicly, or is it only available for purchase?
I haven't released it publicly yet, more so because it is not
fully ready, not because we want anyone to purchase it. I have
some debugging and testing to do on the various architectures
and distributions before relasing it is ready for prime-time. I
is still my intention to replace LiS with it.
Linux Fast-STREAMS compiles and loads on all the above
architectures and distributions as well. I have split off a
strxns package (ldl, ip_strms stuff, DLPI, NPI headers and
docs), strxnet package (timod, tirdwr, libxnet, TPI, XTI headers
and docs), strinet package (inet driver), strsctp package
(STREAMS sctp driver). The purpose of spitting these packages
our of LiS was so that they would build and load against both
LiS and Linux Fast-STREAMS from the same codebase.
In wrapping LiS 2.18.1 under autoconf I was very disappointed to
observe SMP races by simple inspection. (If you want a quick
example look at how lis_freezestr and lis_unfreezestr examine
flags outside of locks and then take locks and change flags
depending on the unlocked check.)
I will apply patches and fixes to 2.18.1 and maintain the code,
however, all my further development effort will be on Linux
Fast-STREAMS instead of LiS. If you work with the 2.18.1
release, you should move quite easily to the Linux Fast-STREAMS
release that has lis_ compatibility functions and is largely
source compatible with LiS.
>
> thanks for the new release, looking forward to see it.
Your welcome. I hope it can be a stable branch along which
patches can be made as required.
--brian
>
> -dan
>
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
dan_gora
Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:47:58 -0700
--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> dan_gora,
Please, just "Dan"... My name is Dan Gora.
> I don't know what a SuSE EL 9 is, but I have 2.18.1 loading and
> running on:
Sorry I got confused, it's not EL9 it's ES 9, SuSE Enterprise Server
9. I guess they got jealous of Red Hat's naming conventions. It
unfortunately has yet a different kernel version from 9.1 or 9.2,
although it's not all that different. The changes that we did for
SuSE 9.1 and 9.2 worked with no changes on ES9 too, so I'm sure that
you'll have similar results.
http://www.novell.com/products/linuxenterpriseserver/
> This was fixed on openss7 LiS-2.16.18 releases a long time ago.
> On parisc, one cannot execute a system call from within the
> kernel. I rip the sys_ symbols on the kernel side of the call
> gate and call them directly.
>
> There are probably more things required for full 64-bit safety,
> however, I do not have any 64-bit test platforms. Anybody
> willing to donate some?
There was some problem with calling them directly on 64 bit
platforms.
I think that they are not all exported anymore in the SuSE versions.
I can't recall exactly what the problem was off hand, but calling
them directly wasn't going to work. I'll try and get back to you
about this.
I'm not willing to donate test platforms, but we are willing to test
the release on ours...
> I haven't released it publicly yet, more so because it is not
> fully ready, not because we want anyone to purchase it. I have
> some debugging and testing to do on the various architectures
> and distributions before relasing it is ready for prime-time. I
> is still my intention to replace LiS with it.
Is it still your intention to make it full GPL or are you going to
use a similar LGPL that LiS uses?
> Linux Fast-STREAMS compiles and loads on all the above
> architectures and distributions as well. I have split off a
> strxns package (ldl, ip_strms stuff, DLPI, NPI headers and
> docs), strxnet package (timod, tirdwr, libxnet, TPI, XTI headers
> and docs), strinet package (inet driver), strsctp package
> (STREAMS sctp driver). The purpose of spitting these packages
> our of LiS was so that they would build and load against both
> LiS and Linux Fast-STREAMS from the same codebase.
>
> In wrapping LiS 2.18.1 under autoconf I was very disappointed to
> observe SMP races by simple inspection. (If you want a quick
> example look at how lis_freezestr and lis_unfreezestr examine
> flags outside of locks and then take locks and change flags
> depending on the unlocked check.)
Did you fix all of the ones that you found or are there still some
hanging out?
> I will apply patches and fixes to 2.18.1 and maintain the code,
> however, all my further development effort will be on Linux
> Fast-STREAMS instead of LiS. If you work with the 2.18.1
> release, you should move quite easily to the Linux Fast-STREAMS
> release that has lis_ compatibility functions and is largely
> source compatible with LiS.
We'll look into that but without being able to see it, it's pretty
hard to make any plans to migrate to it. The licensing will also be
a big issue because we sell comercial non-GPL products and have no
intention on making our code GPL.
> > thanks for the new release, looking forward to see it.
>
> Your welcome. I hope it can be a stable branch along which
> patches can be made as required.
sounds good. I'll make sure that we get our changes for the 64 bit
stuff integrated once you release it, then I'll send em back.
How are you planning on releasing this? On openSS7.org? I'd still
like at some point to open a sourceforge project for this but time
has been lacking lately.
thanks-
dan
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:01:59 -0700
Dan,
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, dan_gora wrote:
>
> --- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > dan_gora,
>
> Please, just "Dan"... My name is Dan Gora.
You might consider changing this:
From: dan_gora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
to this:
From: "Dan Gora" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
;)
>
> > I don't know what a SuSE EL 9 is, but I have 2.18.1 loading and
> > running on:
>
> Sorry I got confused, it's not EL9 it's ES 9, SuSE Enterprise Server
> 9. I guess they got jealous of Red Hat's naming conventions. It
> unfortunately has yet a different kernel version from 9.1 or 9.2,
> although it's not all that different. The changes that we did for
> SuSE 9.1 and 9.2 worked with no changes on ES9 too, so I'm sure that
> you'll have similar results.
Well, if its expensive and there are no clones, someone else
will have to test on it or donate a copy. Are there any clones
for this like there are for RH EL3 and 4?
>
> http://www.novell.com/products/linuxenterpriseserver/
>
> > This was fixed on openss7 LiS-2.16.18 releases a long time ago.
> > On parisc, one cannot execute a system call from within the
> > kernel. I rip the sys_ symbols on the kernel side of the call
> > gate and call them directly.
> >
> > There are probably more things required for full 64-bit safety,
> > however, I do not have any 64-bit test platforms. Anybody
> > willing to donate some?
>
> There was some problem with calling them directly on 64 bit
> platforms.
There is certainly no problem with calling a function.
> I think that they are not all exported anymore in the SuSE versions.
I rip the symbol address from the system map. The system map
effectively exports everything.
> I can't recall exactly what the problem was off hand, but calling
> them directly wasn't going to work. I'll try and get back to you
> about this.
Please do.
>
> I'm not willing to donate test platforms, but we are willing to test
> the release on ours...
That would be good, but I can only build and sign RPMs and DEBs
on architectures to which I have physical access.
>
> > I haven't released it publicly yet, more so because it is not
> > fully ready, not because we want anyone to purchase it. I have
> > some debugging and testing to do on the various architectures
> > and distributions before relasing it is ready for prime-time. I
> > is still my intention to replace LiS with it.
>
> Is it still your intention to make it full GPL or are you going to
> use a similar LGPL that LiS uses?
The only component released under LGPL is the libxnet library.
This is also true of the LiS 2.18.1 release, which will be
released under GPL.
>
> > Linux Fast-STREAMS compiles and loads on all the above
> > architectures and distributions as well. I have split off a
> > strxns package (ldl, ip_strms stuff, DLPI, NPI headers and
> > docs), strxnet package (timod, tirdwr, libxnet, TPI, XTI headers
> > and docs), strinet package (inet driver), strsctp package
> > (STREAMS sctp driver). The purpose of spitting these packages
> > our of LiS was so that they would build and load against both
> > LiS and Linux Fast-STREAMS from the same codebase.
> >
> > In wrapping LiS 2.18.1 under autoconf I was very disappointed to
> > observe SMP races by simple inspection. (If you want a quick
> > example look at how lis_freezestr and lis_unfreezestr examine
> > flags outside of locks and then take locks and change flags
> > depending on the unlocked check.)
>
> Did you fix all of the ones that you found or are there still some
> hanging out?
I didn't fix any of the ones I found. The code is a rats nest
and is full of bugs. The fixes I applied to 2.16.18 have been
applied to 2.18.1, but I don't intend to go looking for bugs to
fix. (I was trying to document the functions when I found the
ones I mentioned.)
If you (or someone else) have some fixes I will patch them in.
But my time is better spent on the production grade Linux
Fast-STREAMS, instead of fixing all the bugs in LiS. Take a
look at the alpha when its released and you'll see what I mean.
>
> > I will apply patches and fixes to 2.18.1 and maintain the code,
> > however, all my further development effort will be on Linux
> > Fast-STREAMS instead of LiS. If you work with the 2.18.1
> > release, you should move quite easily to the Linux Fast-STREAMS
> > release that has lis_ compatibility functions and is largely
> > source compatible with LiS.
>
> We'll look into that but without being able to see it, it's pretty
> hard to make any plans to migrate to it. The licensing will also be
> a big issue because we sell comercial non-GPL products and have no
> intention on making our code GPL.
I can release the alpha that I'm working with now for perusal,
but don't expect it to do much right now without crashing your
kernel.
It will be GPL, however, as with all software released by the
OpenSS7 Project, commercial licensing will be available through
OpenSS7 Corporation. This is a free beer vs. freedom of speech
situation.
>
> > > thanks for the new release, looking forward to see it.
> >
> > Your welcome. I hope it can be a stable branch along which
> > patches can be made as required.
>
> sounds good. I'll make sure that we get our changes for the 64 bit
> stuff integrated once you release it, then I'll send em back.
>
> How are you planning on releasing this? On openSS7.org? I'd still
> like at some point to open a sourceforge project for this but time
> has been lacking lately.
I will put the release up on openss7.org with the other LiS
releases, for now. Once Linux Fast-STREAMS is production grade,
I will discontinue LiS releases. But until then I will maintain
LiS 'cause it doesn't look like there is anyone else willling to
do so.
--brian
>
> thanks-
> dan
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-streams mailing list
> Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
Dave Grothe
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:34:57 -0700
At 07:01 PM 4/11/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> Is it still your intention to make it full GPL or are you going to
> use a similar LGPL that LiS uses?
The only component released under LGPL is the libxnet library.
This is also true of the LiS 2.18.1 release, which will be
released under GPL.
Brian, you are not authorized to change the licensing terms of LiS.
-- Dave
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:21:58 -0700
Dave,
This section is from the LGPL:
3. You may opt to apply the terms of the ordinary GNU General Public
License instead of this License to a given copy of the Library. To
do this, you must alter all the notices that refer to this License,
so that they refer to the ordinary GNU General Public License, version
2, instead of this License. (If a new version than version 2 of the
ordinary GNU General Public License has appeared, then you can specify
that version instead if you wish.) Do not make any other changes in
these notices.
Once this change is made in a given copy, it is irreversible for that
copy, so the ordinary GNU General Public License applies to all subsequent
copies and derivative works made from that copy.
This option is useful when you wish to copy part of the code for the
Library into a program that is not a library.
So, in fact, it is you and other Authors that licensed the work under
the LGPL that authorized others to change the licensing terms of LiS
from LGPL to GPL.
If you had wanted to restrict that, you should not have used the LGPL.
You should have instead used, say, a BSD-style license.
--brian
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
>
> At 07:01 PM 4/11/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
>
> > Is it still your intention to make it full GPL or are you going
> to
> > use a similar LGPL that LiS uses?
> The only component released under LGPL is the libxnet library.
> This is also true of the LiS 2.18.1 release, which will be
> released under GPL.
>
> Brian, you are not authorized to change the licensing terms of LiS.
> -- Dave
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
Dave Grothe
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:28:57 -0700
OK, well now you have a forked version.
-- Dave
At 01:21 PM 4/12/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
Dave,
This section is from the LGPL:
3. You may opt to apply the terms of the ordinary GNU General Public
License instead of this License to a given copy of the Library. To
do this, you must alter all the notices that refer to this License,
so that they refer to the ordinary GNU General Public License, version
2, instead of this License. (If a new version than version 2 of the
ordinary GNU General Public License has appeared, then you can specify
that version instead if you wish.) Do not make any other changes in
these notices.
Once this change is made in a given copy, it is irreversible for that
copy, so the ordinary GNU General Public License applies to all subsequent
copies and derivative works made from that copy.
This option is useful when you wish to copy part of the code for the
Library into a program that is not a library.
So, in fact, it is you and other Authors that licensed the work under
the LGPL that authorized others to change the licensing terms of LiS
from LGPL to GPL.
If you had wanted to restrict that, you should not have used the LGPL.
You should have instead used, say, a BSD-style license.
--brian
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
>
> At 07:01 PM 4/11/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
>
> > Is it still your intention to make it full GPL or are you going
> to
> > use a similar LGPL that LiS uses?
> The only component released under LGPL is the libxnet library.
> This is also true of the LiS 2.18.1 release, which will be
> released under GPL.
>
> Brian, you are not authorized to change the licensing terms of LiS.
> -- Dave
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] LiS and Linux 2.6 (SuSE 9.1 and SuSE 9.2)
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:34:58 -0700
Dave,
In the absence of other releases it is the only version.
--brian
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
>
> OK, well now you have a forked version.
> -- Dave
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
[Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dan Gora
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:02:58 -0700
May I respectfully suggest that you call it something other than LiS
2.18.1 since you are changing the licencing terms and forking your
own branch here. We are still going to maintain LiS in it's LGPL
state and will not use any of your changes if you are going to insist
on making it GPL.
-dan
--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> In the absence of other releases it is the only version.
>
> --brian
>
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
>
> >
> > OK, well now you have a forked version.
> > -- Dave
>
> --
> Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the
> ¦
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in
> ¦
> http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself.
> ¦
> ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the
> ¦
> ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
> ¦
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dave Grothe
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:28:58 -0700
I agree that a name change is in order. "BLiS" ? "LiSS7" ?
-- Dave
At 02:02 PM 4/12/2005, Dan Gora wrote:
May I respectfully suggest that you call it something other than LiS
2.18.1 since you are changing the licencing terms and forking your
own branch here. We are still going to maintain LiS in it's LGPL
state and will not use any of your changes if you are going to insist
on making it GPL.
-dan
--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> In the absence of other releases it is the only version.
>
> --brian
>
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
>
> >
> > OK, well now you have a forked version.
> > -- Dave
>
> --
> Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the
> ¦
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in
> ¦
> http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself.
> ¦
> ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the
> ¦
> ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
> ¦
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Ragnar Paulson
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:49:58 -0700
It seems clear that Brian is creating a new software package now that should
have a different name. Version number itself will get incredibly confusing
should LiS (latest stable version 2.16?) continue to be modified while Brian
continues to publish and modify his LiS under the same name but different
license.
The Software Group will not use a GPL STREAMs environment. I suspect we are
going to see a major splintering of LiS now.
Ragnar Paulson
The Software Group Limited
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Grothe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "linuxstreams" < linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
I agree that a name change is in order. "BLiS" ? "LiSS7" ?
-- Dave
At 02:02 PM 4/12/2005, Dan Gora wrote:
>May I respectfully suggest that you call it something other than LiS
>2.18.1 since you are changing the licencing terms and forking your
>own branch here. We are still going to maintain LiS in it's LGPL
>state and will not use any of your changes if you are going to insist
>on making it GPL.
>
>-dan
>
>--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > In the absence of other releases it is the only version.
> >
> > --brian
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > OK, well now you have a forked version.
> > > -- Dave
> >
> > --
> > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the
> > ¦
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in
> > ¦
> > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself.
> > ¦
> > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the
> > ¦
> > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
> > ¦
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Linux-streams mailing list
>Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
>http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dan Gora
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:03:58 -0700
I agree. Brian, it is you who is forking the code base and changing
the licensing terms to be GPL. This is unacceptable for what I would
guess is at least half of the LiS users out there. Therefore I think
that you should change the name of your branch, since it will no
longer have anything to do with the previous LiS branch by virtue of
the new licensing arrangements.
When I release the next release of LiS has nothing to do with
anything. Just because you are putting something out there first
doesn't automatically give you the right to confuse everyone by
calling your different branch by the same name. You wouldn't like it
very much if I put out a LGPL product called Linux Fast-STREAMS v0.73
that modified and broke what you did.
I have no idea why you want to change the licensing terms for your
branch, but all you are doing is sowing confusion for all of the LiS
community and none of us needs that right now...
BTW, Ragnar, the latest, stable, LGPL version of LiS is 2.18.0, which
is still availible from ftp.gcom.com.
-dan
--- Ragnar Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It seems clear that Brian is creating a new software package now
> that should have a different name. Version number itself will get
> incredibly confusing should LiS (latest stable version 2.16?)
> continue to be modified while Brian continues to publish and modify
> his LiS under the same name but different license.
>
> The Software Group will not use a GPL STREAMs environment. I
> suspect we are going to see a major splintering of LiS now.
>
> Ragnar Paulson
> The Software Group Limited
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Grothe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "linuxstreams" < linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
>
>
> I agree that a name change is in order. "BLiS" ? "LiSS7" ?
> -- Dave
>
> At 02:02 PM 4/12/2005, Dan Gora wrote:
>
>
> >May I respectfully suggest that you call it something other than
> LiS
> >2.18.1 since you are changing the licencing terms and forking your
> >own branch here. We are still going to maintain LiS in it's LGPL
> >state and will not use any of your changes if you are going to
> insist
> >on making it GPL.
> >
> >-dan
> >
> >--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dave,
> > >
> > > In the absence of other releases it is the only version.
> > >
> > > --brian
> > >
> > > On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > OK, well now you have a forked version.
> > > > -- Dave
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to
> the
> > > ¦
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists
> in
> > > ¦
> > > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to
> himself.
> > > ¦
> > > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on
> the
> > > ¦
> > > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard
> Shaw
> > > ¦
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Linux-streams mailing list
> >Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> >http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-streams mailing list
> Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:19:57 -0700
Dan,
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dan Gora wrote:
>
>
> I agree. Brian, it is you who is forking the code base and changing
> the licensing terms to be GPL. This is unacceptable for what I would
> guess is at least half of the LiS users out there. Therefore I think
> that you should change the name of your branch, since it will no
> longer have anything to do with the previous LiS branch by virtue of
> the new licensing arrangements.
>
> When I release the next release of LiS has nothing to do with
> anything. Just because you are putting something out there first
> doesn't automatically give you the right to confuse everyone by
> calling your different branch by the same name. You wouldn't like it
> very much if I put out a LGPL product called Linux Fast-STREAMS v0.73
> that modified and broke what you did.
You wouldn't be able to do that Dan, you can't go from GPL to LGPL,
just the other way around.
However, you are welcome to release a Linux Fast-STREAMS v0.73 under
GPL terms.
I released LiS-2.16.16-1 under GPL January 2004. I have been doing this
for over a year now, so I don't know why your so upset now. Perhaps
its because, while before there was GCOM's release, now there is none:
while before OpenSS7 project releases were just an alternative, now they
are the only alternative.
Why are you so up in arms about a competing release that is now the only
release?
--brian
>
> I have no idea why you want to change the licensing terms for your
> branch, but all you are doing is sowing confusion for all of the LiS
> community and none of us needs that right now...
>
> BTW, Ragnar, the latest, stable, LGPL version of LiS is 2.18.0, which
> is still availible from ftp.gcom.com.
>
> -dan
>
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dan Gora
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:34:58 -0700
--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I released LiS-2.16.16-1 under GPL January 2004. I have been doing
> this
> for over a year now, so I don't know why your so upset now.
> Perhaps
> its because, while before there was GCOM's release, now there is
> none:
> while before OpenSS7 project releases were just an alternative, now
> they
> are the only alternative.
I am getting upset about it now because I had no idea that your LiS
was released under GPL until right now. If I had known about it
before I probably would have gotten upset about then....
> Why are you so up in arms about a competing release that is now the
> only
> release?
Because you are creating confusion by making no distnction between
your GPL version and the "main" LiS LGPL source. If you keep it on
openss7.org and clearly mark it so that people know that they are not
getting the GCOM LGPL version, then there is no problem...
dan
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:54:57 -0700
Dan,
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dan Gora wrote:
>
> --- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I released LiS-2.16.16-1 under GPL January 2004. I have been doing
> > this
> > for over a year now, so I don't know why your so upset now.
> > Perhaps
> > its because, while before there was GCOM's release, now there is
> > none:
> > while before OpenSS7 project releases were just an alternative, now
> > they
> > are the only alternative.
>
> I am getting upset about it now because I had no idea that your LiS
> was released under GPL until right now. If I had known about it
> before I probably would have gotten upset about then....
>
> > Why are you so up in arms about a competing release that is now the
> > only
> > release?
>
> Because you are creating confusion by making no distnction between
> your GPL version and the "main" LiS LGPL source. If you keep it on
> openss7.org and clearly mark it so that people know that they are not
> getting the GCOM LGPL version, then there is no problem...
Dave said GCOM will not release LiS after 2.18.0. Nevertheles,
it is kept on openss7.org and all the documentation is marked as
an OpenSS7 LiS release. The release does not claim to be a GCOM
release, as a matter of fact notice is given to the fact that it
is an OpenSS7 release and that it is released under GPL. When
loaded, it will, however, replace an LiS-2.18.0 release that
that is why the numbering is LiS-2.18.1. Previously I
numberered such as LiS-2.16.18-19, however, when I added Debian
.deb packaging, the version number must be 0 or 1 for upstream
released debs, and to include the source in the upload, so now
rpms are LiS-2.18.1-1 and debs are lis_2.18.1_0.
As there are over 100,000 changes, none of these releases were
workable as a patch. As there is no upstream release and no
upstream maintainer and since we are willing to make both
upstream and downstream changes, I don't see how there can be
any problem or confusion.
If Dave (or somebody else for goodness sake) were still willing
to maintain the upstream package, I would have released 2.18.0-1
and then 2.18.1-1, etc. However, as no 2.18.1 is fortcoming, it
is not workable to release 2.18.0-104, patcularly because of the
Debian reinterpretation of source code inclusion in the build at
_2. It is better for autoconf too, which I had to really fake
out to get it to generate a LiS-2.16.18-19.tar.gz tarball in the
first place. Upstream numbering is far more natural for
autoconf.
So, I suppose you have no problem now?
--brian
>
>
> dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-streams mailing list
> Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dan Gora
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:59:57 -0700
--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, I suppose you have no problem now?
No, Brian, you have been so sweet about the whole thing....
Now at least everyone on the LiS mailing list knows what they are
getting.
-dan
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Ragnar Paulson
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:56:57 -0700
I too did not notice that there were variants in the wild with the same name
but operating under a different license.
I have imported the entire LiS-2.18.0 into CVS, tagged it as LiS-2-18-0 and
will maintain the source based on submissions to this mailing list. I have
even less broad test abilities than Dave, so I will rely on visual inspection,
compiler and this mailing list for code review. Consequently large patches may
take a considerable amount of time before they are released.
On the other hand, I believe the bulk of LiS is stable and will not change
much. It is not my intention to add new features or components to LiS. LiS
needs to support STREAMS on a wide variety of operating systems and platforms.
It does not need to include drivers and modules the use STREAMS however useful
they might be. Don't ask me to include your wonderful gadget module in the
next release of LiS ... create your own package.
Releases will be made quarterly (unless there are no changes) or as needed in
case of emergency. They will be published to our FTP site in the lis
directory. ftp://ftp.wanware.com/lis/LiS-2.18.0.tgz is a copy of the GCOM
package.
Expect LiS-2.18.1.tgz sometime this summer, and future releases as reported
above.
Brian, please rename your "copy" (as per your original e-mail you have the
copy) that has been GPLed.
Ragnar Paulson
The Software Group Limited
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:35:57 -0700
Ragnar,
I'm too deep into the release cycle to change much now. Perhaps
I could release it as 2.18.0.1 if that would help. If that
works for you I will investigate and get back.
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Ragnar Paulson wrote:
> I too did not notice that there were variants in the wild with
> the same name but operating under a different license.
>
> I have imported the entire LiS-2.18.0 into CVS, tagged it as
> LiS-2-18-0 and will maintain the source based on submissions
> to this mailing list. I have even less broad test abilities
> than Dave, so I will rely on visual inspection, compiler and
> this mailing list for code review. Consequently large patches
> may take a considerable amount of time before they are
> released.
>
> On the other hand, I believe the bulk of LiS is stable and
> will not change much. It is not my intention to add new
> features or components to LiS. LiS needs to support STREAMS
> on a wide variety of operating systems and platforms. It does
> not need to include drivers and modules the use STREAMS
> however useful they might be. Don't ask me to include your
> wonderful gadget module in the next release of LiS ... create
> your own package.
Please remove Ole's versions of timod and tirdwr, they are
seriously broken. Ldl is seriously broken (and is GPL), perhaps
you should remove it. There are races in new functions
lis_freezestr and lis_unfreezestr. Both lis_qprocsoff/on and
lis_un/freezestr are broken and unusable in the SVR 4.2 MP
sense. There are still open/close race bugs. You will need to
handle unexported symbols in 2.6.10 kernels. Opening streams
drivers is broken on devfsd kernels. Additional bugs in most
SREAMS functions are documented in the manual pages released
with the OpenSS7 release.
Please do not include our strxnet package, our inet driver or
our working timod/tirdwr modules. They are (and have always
been) GPL code. There has always been a confusion since it was
inluded in LiS, as some companies have been using it believing
that it is under the terms of the LGPL when it is not.
It would probably be a good idea to remove cdi, dlpi, npi, tpi
and xti header files as nothing else uses them and they conflict
with release packages.
>
> Releases will be made quarterly (unless there are no changes)
> or as needed in case of emergency. They will be published to
> our FTP site in the lis directory.
> ftp://ftp.wanware.com/lis/LiS-2.18.0.tgz is a copy of the GCOM
> package.
LiS-2.18.0 does not build on SuSE 9.1, SuSE 9.2, EL4, FC3,
MDK10.1 with current kernels. It also does not build for
recent kernels and distro release kernels in the 2.4 series.
Is that an emergency? Users of these systems can I suppose read
back in the archives and hand patch LiS-2.18.0 in the mean time.
>
> Expect LiS-2.18.1.tgz sometime this summer, and future
> releases as reported above.
Good timing, I hope to have LiS replaced by then.
>
> Brian, please rename your "copy" (as per your original e-mail
> you have the copy) that has been GPLed.
Could you maybe use LiS-2.18.2 this summer and save me the
trouble of changing a release that is already cut.
>
> Ragnar Paulson
> The Software Group Limited
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-streams mailing list
> Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
> http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dave Grothe
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:58:58 -0700
At 04:35 PM 4/12/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
Ragnar,
Please do not include our strxnet package, our inet driver or
our working timod/tirdwr modules. They are (and have always
been) GPL code. There has always been a confusion since it was
inluded in LiS, as some companies have been using it believing
that it is under the terms of the LGPL when it is not.
Mere aggregation is not a violation of the license. Ragnar can include this
stuff if he wants to. I gave up on it due to build problems on various
platforms that would cause LiS not to install just because strxnet would
fail to compile.
It would probably be a good idea to remove cdi, dlpi, npi, tpi
and xti header files as nothing else uses them and they conflict
with release packages.
This is just the kind of thing that the Linux kernel guys did. They removed
kernel exported symbols, thus deleting functions from the kernel DKI, just
because no driver in the kernel source tree used the symbols.
Do what you like, but there are drivers out there that use those header
files. They just happen not to be included in the LiS source.
-- Dave
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:12:57 -0700
Dave,
It would help if they (dlpi, npi, tpi) conformed to the X/Open
specifications. The strxnet package replaces these headers
because they do no conform. One could include the fixed ones
from strxnet, but they have been released under GPL. Perhaps
Ragnar would care to fix them.
--brian
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
>
> At 04:35 PM 4/12/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
>
> Ragnar,
> Please do not include our strxnet package, our inet driver or
> our working timod/tirdwr modules. They are (and have always
> been) GPL code. There has always been a confusion since it was
> inluded in LiS, as some companies have been using it believing
> that it is under the terms of the LGPL when it is not.
>
> Mere aggregation is not a violation of the license. Ragnar can
> include this stuff if he wants to. I gave up on it due to build
> problems on various platforms that would cause LiS not to install just
> because strxnet would fail to compile.
>
> It would probably be a good idea to remove cdi, dlpi, npi, tpi
> and xti header files as nothing else uses them and they conflict
> with release packages.
>
> This is just the kind of thing that the Linux kernel guys did. They
> removed kernel exported symbols, thus deleting functions from the
> kernel DKI, just because no driver in the kernel source tree used the
> symbols.
> Do what you like, but there are drivers out there that use those
> header files. They just happen not to be included in the LiS source.
> -- Dave
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dave Grothe
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:42:58 -0700
At 03:19 PM 4/12/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
I released LiS-2.16.16-1 under GPL January 2004.
I also did not realize until just now that you GPLed your RPM distribution
of LiS. Well, it is my own fault for not spotting that clause in the LGPL
license. Had I noticed that in the beginning I would have deleted that
clause to foreclose that alternative. Too late now.
I really would appreciate it if you would rename it, however.
-- Dave
[Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:39:57 -0700
Dan,
When were you going to release a version of LiS? When you do, I'm sure
we can agree on version numbers. Until then, I'll take LiS-2.18.1.
Perhaps we should rename the older release of LiS to Unsupported-LiS.
--brian
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dan Gora wrote:
>
>
> May I respectfully suggest that you call it something other than LiS
> 2.18.1 since you are changing the licencing terms and forking your
> own branch here. We are still going to maintain LiS in it's LGPL
> state and will not use any of your changes if you are going to insist
> on making it GPL.
>
> -dan
>
> --- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > In the absence of other releases it is the only version.
> >
> > --brian
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > OK, well now you have a forked version.
> > > -- Dave
> >
> > --
> > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the
> > ¦
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in
> > ¦
> > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself.
> > ¦
> > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the
> > ¦
> > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
> > ¦
> >
> >
> >
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dave Grothe
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:52:58 -0700
At 02:38 PM 4/12/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
Dan,
When were you going to release a version of LiS? When you do, I'm sure
we can agree on version numbers. Until then, I'll take LiS-2.18.1.
Perhaps we should rename the older release of LiS to Unsupported-LiS.
Sorry, I got there first. What is on the Gcom ftp site is and will remain
just plain old LiS.
You are free to introduce as much confusion as you like, I'm just trying to
make constructive suggestions.
-- Dave
--brian
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dan Gora wrote:
>
>
> May I respectfully suggest that you call it something other than LiS
> 2.18.1 since you are changing the licencing terms and forking your
> own branch here. We are still going to maintain LiS in it's LGPL
> state and will not use any of your changes if you are going to insist
> on making it GPL.
>
> -dan
>
> --- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > In the absence of other releases it is the only version.
> >
> > --brian
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > OK, well now you have a forked version.
> > > -- Dave
> >
> > --
> > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the
> > ¦
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in
> > ¦
> > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself.
> > ¦
> > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the
> > ¦
> > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
> > ¦
> >
> >
> >
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:07:57 -0700
Dave,
Thank you. I don't see that LiS-2.18.1 can cause confusion as
there is no other LiS-2.18.1 release.
If anyone else is willing to step up and maintain LiS releases
in the near future and needs these version numbers, please speak
now.
I certainly cannot force anyone to use a release, however, I'm
pretty sure it will get used by some: the GPL'ed LiS-2.16.18-19
and strxnet-0.9.2-4 are downloaded 20 times a day.
Also realize that at present my intention is to drop support for
LiS the moment that Linux Fast-STREAMS is production grade and
replaces LiS, at which time LiS can go back to being completely
unsupported.
BTW, the name for the Linux Fast-STREAMS package is currently
streams-0.7a.3.
--brian
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dave Grothe wrote:
>
> At 02:38 PM 4/12/2005, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
>
> Dan,
> When were you going to release a version of LiS? When you do, I'm
> sure
> we can agree on version numbers. Until then, I'll take LiS-2.18.1.
> Perhaps we should rename the older release of LiS to
> Unsupported-LiS.
>
> Sorry, I got there first. What is on the Gcom ftp site is and will
> remain just plain old LiS.
> You are free to introduce as much confusion as you like, I'm just
> trying to make constructive suggestions.
> -- Dave
>
> --brian
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Dan Gora
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:27:57 -0700
--- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Thank you. I don't see that LiS-2.18.1 can cause confusion as
> there is no other LiS-2.18.1 release.
The point is not whether or not a LiS 2.18.1 release exists yet or
not. The point is that you are completely changing the licensing
terms of the product and just changing a release number. Since
changing the licensing terms makes the product completely
unacceptable to many, many people who use it, it seems that this
warrants some more forceful distinction....
> If anyone else is willing to step up and maintain LiS releases
> in the near future and needs these version numbers, please speak
> now.
>
Why does someone need to step forward now? Who made you the guardian
of LiS?
> I certainly cannot force anyone to use a release, however, I'm
> pretty sure it will get used by some: the GPL'ed LiS-2.16.18-19
> and strxnet-0.9.2-4 are downloaded 20 times a day.
I'm sure that people do use it, but GPL LiS is unacceptable to anyone
who makes commercial propriatary software that uses it.
> Also realize that at present my intention is to drop support for
> LiS the moment that Linux Fast-STREAMS is production grade and
> replaces LiS, at which time LiS can go back to being completely
> unsupported.
So, if you have no intentions of supporting this in the future, then
why are you even bothering? If you are just going to create
confusion for everone for one release, then don't bother. People
have been getting along just fine without RPM support for 18 versions
now.
> BTW, the name for the Linux Fast-STREAMS package is currently
> streams-0.7a.3.
It doesn't really matter since no one except you has ever even seen
the mythical "Fast-STREAMS"....
dan
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams
Re: [Linux-streams] Re: OpenSS7 GPL'd LiS.
Brian F. G. Bidulock
Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:41:58 -0700
Dan,
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Dan Gora wrote:
>
> --- "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > Thank you. I don't see that LiS-2.18.1 can cause confusion as
> > there is no other LiS-2.18.1 release.
>
> The point is not whether or not a LiS 2.18.1 release exists yet or
> not. The point is that you are completely changing the licensing
> terms of the product and just changing a release number. Since
> changing the licensing terms makes the product completely
> unacceptable to many, many people who use it, it seems that this
> warrants some more forceful distinction....
No, I changed the licensing on our 2.16.16 and 2.16.18 releases last
year, not just now.
>
> > If anyone else is willing to step up and maintain LiS releases
> > in the near future and needs these version numbers, please speak
> > now.
> >
>
> Why does someone need to step forward now? Who made you the guardian
> of LiS?
For goodness sake! They don't have to, I just asked: I even used
the word "please".
>
> > I certainly cannot force anyone to use a release, however, I'm
> > pretty sure it will get used by some: the GPL'ed LiS-2.16.18-19
> > and strxnet-0.9.2-4 are downloaded 20 times a day.
>
> I'm sure that people do use it, but GPL LiS is unacceptable to anyone
> who makes commercial propriatary software that uses it.
OpenSS7 Corporation can give you license to use it as LGPL if you really
want to: but I doubt that you want to pay anthing -- I'm sure you would
prefer to continue to be a free rider.
>
> > Also realize that at present my intention is to drop support for
> > LiS the moment that Linux Fast-STREAMS is production grade and
> > replaces LiS, at which time LiS can go back to being completely
> > unsupported.
>
> So, if you have no intentions of supporting this in the future, then
> why are you even bothering? If you are just going to create
> confusion for everone for one release, then don't bother. People
> have been getting along just fine without RPM support for 18 versions
> now.
Its a lot more than just RPM support:
899 files changed, 126911 insertions(+), 20307 deletions(-)
>
> > BTW, the name for the Linux Fast-STREAMS package is currently
> > streams-0.7a.3.
>
> It doesn't really matter since no one except you has ever even seen
> the mythical "Fast-STREAMS"....
Me and the subscribers and sponsors of the OpenSS7 Project. I offered
to post an alpha copy for you to peruse, but now I'm not so sure. I
suppose it doesn't matter, 'cause you won't use it anyway: its GPL.
--brian
--
Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦
http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦
¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦
¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦
_______________________________________________
Linux-streams mailing list
Linux-streams@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/mailman/listinfo/linux-streams