Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #18 on: December 30, 2005, 09:22:55 PM

louis.landry
Development Workgroup
Joomla! Hero

I will suggest on the issue of dublin core metadata, that a discussion take place to decide upon a subset of the DCMI elements applicable to joomla content.  Also, once this subset has been determined, the need will arise to map current content parameters to its respective element as well as determine what information should be put in each element not mapped to a current content parameter.  I like the idea of this, but can quickly see there will be some of these that are taken care of globally through the JDocument class and others that will necessitate being populated within the component itself.  The content component is going to be HEAVILY reworked in 1.2 and this would be the time to make these decisions.

Louis


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #17 on: December 30, 2005, 08:51:57 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Introduction of Dublin Core Metadata elements

Suggestion Description
Implement Dublin Core metadata elements as per http://dublincore.org/ in addition to current/improved meta keywords and description handling.

Supporting Argument(s)

References

How other systems handle this


Reply #16 Omitted


Reply #15 Omitted


Reply #14 Omitted


Reply #13 Omitted


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #12 on: December 30, 2005, 07:27:20 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Generate “human friendly” URLs

Suggestion Description
The system should have the ability to generate URLs that make sense to the human eye and reinforces keywords within content.  For example:
http://mysite.com/sectionname/categoryname/title.html

Further, the system should provide flexibility for the user to select whether to display or not the section name, the category name or the page title.  It should also allow for an override of the URL for each content item.

(Caveat: this needs to be handled without significant increases on server loads)

Supporting Argument(s)

References

How other systems handle this
If you know how a system successfully handle this, please contact me so I can add that information to this area.  Alternatively, post a response to the thread, with the CMS name and how it is handled.


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #11 on: December 30, 2005, 07:26:04 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Eliminate duplicate URL’s for same content

Suggestion Description
The system currently oftens reaches the same page via different URL’s.  This can increase the number of page that have to be indexed (unecessarily) by SE.  For example, http://mysite.com/, http://mysite.com/index.php, http://mysite.com/ component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/ all lead to the same page.  It may also trigger a “duplicate content penalty” with some SE.

Supporting Argument(s)
“I have been thinking for a while that duplicate URL and therefore duplicate content penalty is a bigger problem, but I have no element to back this up, except that my sites are listed with a lot of "similar pages" when doing "site:www.mydomain.com", (and also that the above-mentioned SEO sites are full of posts about it!)” - shumisha

References
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,17210.msg123286.html#msg123286
  
How other systems handle this
If you know how a system successfully handle this, please contact me so I can add that information to this area.  Alternatively, post a response to the thread, with the CMS name and how it is handled.


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #10 on: December 30, 2005, 07:24:55 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Use headers for article titles

Suggestion Description
Instead of delivering article titles in a table cell with a class of “contentheading”, they should be delivered in a <hx> (discussion on Usability & Accessibility work group leads us to favour <h3> at the moment).

Supporting Argument(s)
Search engines put more weight if the title is found in a header level element than within the text.

References
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,17210.msg108213.html#msg108213

How other systems handle this
If you know how a system successfully handle this, please contact me so I can add that information to this area.  Alternatively, post a response to the thread, with the CMS name and how it is handled.


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #9 on: December 30, 2005, 07:23:33 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Provide a core Sitemap component

Suggestion Description

Supporting Argument(s)
A sitemap will help Search Engines crawl your site.  The SE will find the sitemap and “venture forth” from there.  Google has its own “Google sitemap” system, which they use, but all SE will benefit from a sitemap.

Non SEO related argument in favour of a core Sitemap component is compliance with WAI’s WCAG 1.0 Priority 2 Point 13.3 – “Provide information about the general layout of a site (e.g., a site map or table of contents).”

References

How other systems handle this
If you know how a system successfully handle this, please contact me so I can add that information to this area.  Alternatively, post a response to the thread, with the CMS name and how it is handled.


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #8 on: December 30, 2005, 07:20:41 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Generate code output that validates to XHTML/CSS

Suggestion Description

Supporting Argument(s)
“It will.  The more HTML there is, the more diluted the content is.  Many SEO sources stress code-to-content ratio, and it's one of the big benefits of CSS w/ regards to SEO.  Bots love accesibility and a low content-to-code ratio usually provides just that.” - gharding

References
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,17210.msg107920.html#msg107920
  
How other systems handle this
If you know how a system successfully handle this, please contact me so I can add that information to this area.  Alternatively, post a response to the thread, with the CMS name and how it is handled.

Last Edit: December 30, 2005, 07:22:12 PM by vavroom


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #7 on: December 30, 2005, 07:19:48 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Ability to manage page title behaviour

Suggestion Description
If dynamic titles are selected, Joomla! currently delivers titles in the following format: “Site name – Article title.”

A better format would be: “Article title – Site name”.

Better yet would be offering users the ability of selecting which behaviour they want, with the default behaviour being “Article title – Site name”.

Even better, would be the ability to offer a page title override.  This may not be possible using patTemplate as suggested by Jinx, as each content item may need its particular page title override.

Supporting Argument(s)
“Make sure your page title is appearing before the sitename on your page as this will increase clicks when you are ranked” – Jimboot

“What about if we want, for some reason (any reason)  to create an strategy for SEO, and we decide as a company to experiment with the titles and metas (inverting order betwen global and item, to hide them etc.). I would be better for me, a Joomla user and padawan (notice the star wars word) to have more control, flexibility in this matter... let's forget at this moment if this feature is good or not for SEO, just focus on the ability of Joomla to control as many aspects as we want from our content. That's why I think Joomla must include this option, that's why Joomla it's a CMS, Is'n it?” – consiglieri

“Usability (and marketing) - links to home pages which appear in favorites lists as "Home" are a usability and marketing problem.  Who among us has not looked and looked for the link to that web site whose name starts a W, only to finally find it listed alphabetically in the "H" section (Home), if you find it at all?  Bad marketing and bad usability.” - kenmcd

References
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,17210.msg107995.html#msg107995
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,17210.msg109960.html#msg109960
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,18041.0.html
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,4329.0.html

How other systems handle this
If you know how a system successfully handle this, please contact me so I can add that information to this area.  Alternatively, post a response to the thread, with the CMS name and how it is handled.

Last Edit: December 30, 2005, 07:21:43 PM by vavroom


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #6 on: December 30, 2005, 07:18:20 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Change meta keywords and meta description handling on the frontpage.

Suggestion Description
Currently the front page displays the global meta info, along with the meta information from every content item displayed on the front page. 

The frontpage should deliver only the global meta info, or a method for including meta info only for the frontpage, similar to that of individual content items should be included.
Supporting Argument(s)

References

How other systems handle this
If you know how a system successfully handle this, please contact me so I can add that information to this area.  Alternatively, post a response to the thread, with the CMS name and how it is handled.

Last Edit: December 30, 2005, 07:21:25 PM by vavroom


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #5 on: December 30, 2005, 07:17:05 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

DRAFT
Suggestion Summary
Meta keywords and meta description separation.

Suggestion Description
Offer a way to change the appending behaviour of meta keywords and meta description, so global meta information does not get automatically appended to that of individual content item.

Supporting Argument(s)

References
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,27075.0.html
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,17210.msg107781.html#msg107781
•   http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,4329.0.html

How other systems handle this
If you know how a system successfully handle this, please contact me so I can add that information to this area.  Alternatively, post a response to the thread, with the CMS name and how it is handled.

Last Edit: December 30, 2005, 07:21:07 PM by vavroom


Reply #4 Omitted


Reply #3 Omitted


Reply #2 Omitted


Re: Joomla 1.1 and SEO improvements

Reply #1 on: December 29, 2005, 03:58:31 PM

vavroom
Joomla! Hero

Gamesport, I think the need for this is recognised, otherwise this particular thread wouldn't have been started by Jinx, who is the lead coder for 1.1

I think that what we need to do, at this point, is a simple and concise list of *what* is needed, perhaps not so much *why* it's needed.  Though supporting argument can be a good thing.  I'll take some time to review and go through those threads and "lift" things up.  Feel free to go through it as well.

My work group has been tasked with creating a proposal for the 1.1 development guys.  I am hoping to be able to present each proposal in the following format:

Requested format
Suggestion #x
     Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

Suggestion Description
     It's a bad idea to do this because, and this is how it's best achieved...

Supporting argument
     Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Nam vel nisi. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Integer vel eros at neque aliquam cursus.

References (if appropriate)

How other systems handle this
     Drupal does this
     Typo3 does that
     Plume handles it that way
     Xoops handles it this way
     Other CMS bla bla
     Another CMS yadaydada

It would be helpful to me if people who participate in this thread included information in that way.

Please, only one suggestion per post, as this will make it easier to sort out.  Please, keep the supporting argument brief (1 or 2 paragraphs max).  How other systems handle a particular feature would be nice, if, and only if, you feel the way that particular system handles it makes sense.

//Edit: I am hoping to have *all* (ha!) the information by Thursday 5 January, which gives me a couple day to do a final compilation to hand in the proposal to the 1.1 Dev team by 7 January, as requested by Jinx.  So, your deadline to assist is 5 January 2006

Last Edit: December 30, 2005, 07:48:19 PM by vavroom


Re: Joomla 1.5 and SEO improvements discussion.

on: December 29, 2005, 02:54:16 PM

gamesport
Full Member

you can add this to those links: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,27075.0.html

i read through all the arguments in the other thread, and without rehashing all the arguments in those threads, let me quickly show you a recent example of the penalty that is incurred without a seperate metadata for content items.

One i published an article about a "New Top Spin 2 Trailer Released" a couple of days later,  a google search for "Top Spin 2 Trailer", had my website thing on top 3 results. After about 9 more articles published within a week on my site, the Article, is automatically removed from my Latest News Module.

Now i can't even get the article on google search even if i put the full Title of the article, but yahoo search still has it on #7 for my initial search phrase

essentially what this means is that once the article link dissappears completely from my frontpage, google, starts to penalize it, b/c its still using the metadata from the homepage.

To test my theory,  do a google search for top spin 2 delay confirmed which is still one of the links that is still on the latest news module on my home page. you will get top tier results for my site.  I can guarantee, that as soon as i have enought articles that remove those links from the homepage, you will not see that result in google. Yahoo seems to be more lenient though.....

So i think what we need is to be able to have metadata for content items, that doesnt call the one for the frontpage. we need seperation